Strong kit for enduro conversion

[Larby]

Hi all,

I own a Commencal Supreme full sus enduro bike which I’d like to convert to an e-bike.

I’m pretty certain it needs to be torque sensed and mid drive, so that narrows it right down already.

About the only available option seems to be the TSDZ2, but that has two major issues for me:
1, the motor hangs down
2, the crankset is not going to be strong enough for enduro/downhill use.

What other options could people think of, which would fit the following spec:

- Mid drive, torque sensed
- 250-500W
- Doesn’t hang down
- Preferably doesn’t replace the actual crankset, or if it does, is strong enough to take a beating.
- In a perfect world, relatively easily removed.

Thanks!

 

[soundwave]

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[Larby]

View attachment 46876

Shop Ebike & Emtb Conversion Kits | CYCMOTOR LTD

Get your e bike or e mtb conversion kit straight from the CYCMOTOR LTD online store. Complete conversion kits, parts, & accessories are all available for the most powerful mid drive motor systems.

www.cycmotor.com

I did mean to mention the CYC kit.
I’m still concerned that as it uses a square taper BB, it may not be strong enough for proper abuse.
It’s also quite expensive, though probably reasonably priced for the quality.
It’s certainly an option and a better one than the TSDZ2

Cheers

 

[soundwave]

the axle wont brake but what holds them to the bb might all come loose even with lock tight but where are you going to put the batt?

id not ride black trails with one of mine in a back pack.

 

[Larby]

I wouldn’t want to have a battery in a backpack either.

Lots of options for the battery at the moment, I’d like to keep it low down.
I can happily build my own to suit the setup if required.
I won’t need massive range, so have the advantage that I could use a pretty small battery solution.

I’ve heard of TSDZ2 cranks and axles snapping, I wouldn’t spec a normal enduro bike with a standard square taper BB, so I’m reluctant to downgrade my bike to one.

All part of the challenge. Going fully DIY is an option, I run a very capable engineering shop with 3D scanning, CAD, machining etc, but I don’t have much free time if something is available off the shelf.

I like the look of the ‘lightest’ setup, but I’m not convinced it’s going to ship this year either, so reluctant to put my money into that.
I like the fact it leaves all the critical parts of the original bike in place.

I’ve even considered using an OEM style mid drive like the Bafang M500 attached to the downtube, with a secondary chain to the crankset. More complex than that though sadly.
I’d have to attach my crankset by chain (or belt etc) to the crank input on it, then have the chainring on the chainring of the mid drive unit.
Would be an odd looking setup, that’s for sure! Not easy to swap back either.

 

[peter.c]

The tsdz2 crank does snap if you are heavy or abuse it, mine broke on the drive side level with the circlip on the shaft , but my bafang has put up with hard use. After awhile you get used to the cadence sensor and with the programme lead set the power to your own requirements

 

[soundwave]

Luna Deluxe Mini Cyclone Kit

Distributors and builders of life changing high power electric bikes.

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isis bb

 

[Woosh]

Hi all,

I own a Commencal Supreme full sus enduro bike which I’d like to convert to an e-bike.

I’m pretty certain it needs to be torque sensed and mid drive, so that narrows it right down already.

About the only available option seems to be the TSDZ2, but that has two major issues for me:
1, the motor hangs down
2, the crankset is not going to be strong enough for enduro/downhill use.

What other options could people think of, which would fit the following spec:

- Mid drive, torque sensed
- 250-500W
- Doesn’t hang down
- Preferably doesn’t replace the actual crankset, or if it does, is strong enough to take a beating.
- In a perfect world, relatively easily removed.

Thanks!

if you are going to use a secondary chain then the 48V TSDZ2 may be worth a look.
Assuming that you ride on private land, there is this solution from GNG, they do also road legal kits:

 

[Larby]

Luna Deluxe Mini Cyclone Kit

Distributors and builders of life changing high power electric bikes.

lunacycle.com

isis bb

Would be ideal, but they don’t seem to make it any more. It hasn’t been in stock for a long time.

 

[Larby]

if you are going to use a secondary chain then the 48V TSDZ2 may be worth a look.
Assuming that you ride on private land, there is this solution from GNG, they do also road legal kits:

That GNG kit looks quite promising.
I had originally decided on the TSDZ2, I actually emailed you for a price last week as it happens!
On further investigation though, I just don’t think it’s going to be strong enough for proper enduro/downhill use and I’m concerned about it hanging down.

 

[Woosh]

I’m concerned about it hanging down.

that's not much of a problem. The motor is tied to the frame with a mounting bracket so does not rely on tightening the M33 nuts to resist the rotation when power is applied (the anti-torque bracket has a bolt going between the chainstays where you usually fit a two legged propstand).

 

[matthewslack]

Robust and low cost means Bafang, which means learning to live without a torque sensor until someone develops one for it.

If enduro means the cross country end of MTB spectrum, programming 9 levels of current control with a control as accessible as the gear shifter might be at least ride able.

If the budget is somewhat higher, will a conversion really be cheaper and as good as off the shelf?

 

[Larby]

that's not much of a problem. The motor is tied to the frame with a mounting bracket so does not rely on tightening the M33 nuts to resist the rotation when power is applied (the anti-torque bracket has a bolt going between the chainstays where you usually fit a two legged propstand).

My fear is snapping the square taper shaft or the cranks themselves. It seems others have broken them with not much abuse?
I’d prefer a setup which allows me to keep as much of the original bike in place as possible really.

 

[Larby]

Robust and low cost means Bafang, which means learning to live without a torque sensor until someone develops one for it.

If enduro means the cross country end of MTB spectrum, programming 9 levels of current control with a control as accessible as the gear shifter might be at least ride able.

If the budget is somewhat higher, will a conversion really be cheaper and as good as off the shelf?

An OEM full sus elec bike would be lovely, but I don’t have that budget for it yet.
I’m also an engineer, with a full R&D and Fabrication shop at my disposal, so my mind insists on doing these things myself!

It’s looking like I’m going to have to come up with a combination of things myself to get what I’d like to achieve, but this thread has been incredibly helpful so far!

 

[matthewslack]

An OEM full sus elec bike would be lovely, but I don’t have that budget for it yet.
I’m also an engineer, with a full R&D and Fabrication shop at my disposal, so my mind insists on doing these things myself!

It’s looking like I’m going to have to come up with a combination of things myself to get what I’d like to achieve, but this thread has been incredibly helpful so far!

You'll learn a lot from riding, so maybe do a cheap Bafang or TSDZ2 hardtail for experience. Everything is out there at a price, torque sensor perhaps the most desirable and least accessible thing!

 

[soundwave]

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you would have to make a custom mount for it to fit on the down tube tho but it uses a throttle but imo you could get a different controller.

 

[guerney]

QS138-A 70H 3000W Mid-drive BLDC Motor with 428 Sprocket and Sinewave Controller with Phone App Program for Electric Vehicle - AliExpress 34

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

you would have to make a custom mount for it to fit on the down tube tho but it uses a throttle but imo you could get a different controller.

It'd be best to keep the controller and battery on the rear part on the bike, then install the controls on the seatpost and the display visible under the front of his helmet over one eye... when the frame snaps in half, he could continue his journey on a fully operational e-unicycle.

 

[soundwave]

tbh anything on that frame will be a bodge job conversion wise its just red and black trails can destroy normal bikes if not maintained let alone the extra weight of a motor and batt on top something will crap out and get destroyed.

a 3000w motor and throttle would put me right off tbh doing those trails as you hit a jump to slow or to fast means a trip to the hospital if you case it or over shoot and destroy the wheels or total the hole bike.

 

[AntonyC]

Robust and low cost means Bafang, which means learning to live without a torque sensor until someone develops one for it.

If enduro means the cross country end of MTB spectrum, programming 9 levels of current control with a control as accessible as the gear shifter might be at least ride able.

I've a 'speed' based controller to which I added more PAS levels, selected by finger tip controls on the grip. It's very rideable on road and could equally work with a current controller. Off-road it hasn't quite the quick response of my TS bike but the tweaking continues.

There are some creative torque sensing methods on ES, perhaps someone will come up with wireless strain gauge insoles