Stratospheric prices

Since I first looked in on this website nearly ten years ago, interest in electric bikes has soared. It worries me somewhat though that the market will quickly diminish if prices continue their upward spiral as more and more manufacturers and sellers seek to make hay while the sun shines.

 

Some of the prices being asked are simply ludicrous and that is reflected in the DIY market of self-build machines where it is possible to create something just as good if not better than the top-end EAPCs touted by some well-known names for not a lot of money. I think most readers are aware of the possibility of purchasing a perfectly good, reliable base bike from any of the popular outlets and adding an electric kit from a choice of suppliers; even a second-hand bike from any source so long as it is suitable.

 

In all honesty, I don't know how ebike sellers can justify prices of 5 grand or more for their offerings. D8veh has produced a number of perfectly good machines on a very small budget and I'm sure many readers with an aptitude for electro-mechanical things could do the same, perhaps with a little guidance from the forum members on this site.

 

If all these grossly expensive ebikes were very lightweight machines, I could perhaps understand the prices but they are not. It baffles me that these enormous prices have come about while we are supposed to be suffering austerity in the UK. I suspect this is a bubble and it will surely burst at some point. How soon?

 

Tom

the trend is usually consumer-led, there must be more demand for e-bikes otherwise large distributors like Halfords and CRC would not bother.

As the market grows, customers become more sophisticated and demand for top end products grows.

Most of the expensive bikes you see is down to the small volume nature of the top end products. R&D costs will have to be passed on to smaller number of units. If you buy a ready made alloy frame for example, that's less than $50. If you want to have your design made, that'll be $100,000 order. If you sell all the frames then you'll do well but if you only sell 100 frames then it would be cheaper to get the frames made in CF instead. After you start with a CF frame, you have to add a Fox fork or no suspension. That logic pushes up the cost of associated components and you'd end up with a £4,000 bike.

CF tooling is very expensive.

go look at dram and nand memory prices

Just for fun I made a spreadsheet when I started out and built up a fictitious bike from bits from bikediscount.de and a common rear hub kit. The end price was about the same as an entry level bike here on the French market at that time. But... mine did have significantly better bike components. That is of course making abstraction of my time etc., etc., etc..

It baffles me that these enormous prices have come about while we are supposed to be suffering austerity in the UK.

 

Often they reflect that the same models are very expensive in such as Germany and The Netherlands where they sometimes originate and where by far the most sales are. That then makes it impossible to price lower here in a common marketplace

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go look at dram and nand memory prices

blame the Bitcoin miners.

Often they reflect that the same models are very expensive in such as Germany and The Netherlands where they sometimes originate and where by far the most sales are. That then makes it impossible to price lower here in a common marketplace

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I thought you were a successful trading nation with wages at the same level as those in the two countries you mention?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

 

So when you see a cargo tricycle sold for 5000€ in Denmark it is going to be harder to pay for it in France (or the UK) than there.

I thought you were a successful trading nation with wages at the same level as those in the two countries you mention?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

 

But compare cost of living as well and the picture changes dramatically. In particular our property prices, rental and transport fares are wildly higher than those in almost all of the rest of the EU.

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I think "average" is the keyword. Many more Danes will be closer to the average wage than French people where income inequality is a thing.

I don't think ebikes are any more expensive than regular bikes. £5k gets you a fairly decent TT bike or full suspension mtb but far from top of the range. Go to any cycle/triathlon club and you'll find plenty of people who have spent lots more. There is a market out there for sure

I think "average" is the keyword. Many more Danes will be closer to the average wage than French people where income inequality is a thing.

 

And here in the UK too, vast differences in wealth and salaries.

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I don't think ebikes are any more expensive than regular bikes. £5k gets you a fairly decent TT bike or full suspension mtb but far from top of the range. Go to any cycle/triathlon club and you'll find plenty of people who have spent lots more. There is a market out there for sure

 

This.

When you look at the market in the context of how much a decent non electric bike costs, then you add the cost of a quality motor, battery and electronics, then manufacturers aren't really 'making hay while the sun shines'. It's pretty much where the market is at.

Not that I'm saying some bike components aren't disproportionately expensive for sometimes minimal gains, but that is the way of the industry, and most of the manufacturers do provide lesser specified bikes at proportionately lower prices.

I don't know how ebike sellers can justify prices of 5 grand or more for their offerings. D8veh has produced a number of perfectly good machines on a very small budget.

 

Comparing a build by D8veh to an off the shelf build isn't something that I agree with.

 

Does Dave have to pay for research and development into both current and future projects, production costs, countless trips to factories to check on progress, type approval, insurance of differing type, import/customs duty, business premises, business rates, marketing/advertising, product placement within industry/retailers, warranty protection/cover, spare parts for stock, customers returning bikes for whatever perceived reason, and even income tax?

 

The answer is no he doesn't, and the two cannot be compared.

 

 

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Edited May 31, 20187 yr by EddiePJ

You are so right Eddie, our overhead alone means we have to sell 150 bikes a month just so we do not make a loss. It's not easy!

 

Atb David

One thing is for sure, we will not see any drop in ebike prices any time soon. The Anti dumping action by the EBMA will drive a lot prices up by arround 15% within the next few weeks. Esp. on the less expensive models, Our £1,150 SE models for instance should go up to around £1,350.00 on 1st July, although we will try and hold that back to £1,250.00.

Yes, £5k is crazy money for an electric bike... why for that money, I can get a set of whole wheels for my normal bike.

 

https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Lightweight/Meilenstein-Carbon-Clincher-Disc-Wheelset-Schwarz-Edition/F025

 

or 1/2 of a watch

 

http://www.jaeger-lecoultre.com/eu/en/watches/rendez-vous/rendez-vous-night-and-day/3468421.html

Yes, £5k is crazy money for an electric bike.

it's not crazy money but how many of those you think would sell in the UK a year? You spend a lot of effort on something as perishable as high end products then at the end of the season, rely on bargain chasers to clear the space. It's a mugs game.

WAW vélomobiles used to be made in the Netherlands, average net wage 2152€. Now they are made in the Czech Republic, average net wage 938€. Laying up CF is a time intensive process so most of the cost in manufacturing is there. They still cost about 10k€.

 

My Czech trike is in many ways comparable to a German competitors trike, it cost 500€ less. Delivered...

 

I find Cube pedelecs very reasonable value for money, you can get a trekking model for about the same price I paid for my trike.

it's not crazy money but how many of those you think would sell in the UK a year? You spend a lot of effort on something as perishable as high end products then at the end of the season, rely on bargain chasers to clear the space. It's a mugs game.

 

The key is to make less bikes than you can sell, Moustach have made an art out of this strategy. Other brands over produce and change models every twelve months, they push retailers to taking large quantities, who then have to discount them to get rid. Often the new model is simply a paint job change!

The key is to make less bikes than you can sell,

that's very hard. The problem is how long you are going to keep the frame versus how long the product is staying at the top. Let's say you make a frame for motor X. If production of X is stopped in 5 years, you only have less than 4 for that frame because sales of that motor would have flopped long before X is stopped. If you plan to produce too few, your push up your tool-up cost. By the time you fully understand the support cost of X, it's time to move to the next best motor.

that's very hard. The problem is how long you are going to keep the frame versus how long the product is staying at the top. Let's say you make a frame for motor X. If production of X is stopped in 5 years, you only have less than 4 for that frame because sales of that motor would have flopped long before X is stopped. If you plan to produce too few, your push up your tool-up cost. By the time you fully understand the support cost of X, it's time to move to the next best motor.

 

I completely agree, when the market is in such flux as it is now between in and on frame batteries a developer needs make certain frame costs are amortised quickly, even in a single season. That’s why it’s imperative to keep on top of technology, we have been speaking to Shimano about the 5,6,7 and 8000 series motors for nearly a year now, along with new battery options. Our 2019 frames are already being prototyped in time for Eurobike at the end of June. As I said, it’s tough.

Edited June 1, 20187 yr by Wisper Bikes

Funnily enough, I have just been trawling through the ALIBaba site to see what sort of electric bikes are available. There is quite a range, but none match exactly what I would like. I thought of posting on here to see if people were interested in listing exactly what they wanted in an ebike. As far as prices go, I could buy a bike from Fenetic Bikes for about £700. It is almost identical to the Woosh Santana I bought five years ago for £625, so bikes at a reasonable price are still available. I ended up building my own because nothing was on the market that suited me. It has cost about £1000 over three years, or about £6 per week for my transport to work etc. (10,000 miles so far). Any takers on the 'Bike I would really like'? A hand-drawn picture would do, with all the features clearly marked. Radpower seem to have some good models, and sell direct like Woosh, Juiced Bikes etc.

I want one that looks like this:

 

 

If it had air conditioning that would be perfect! And about 1000 W at the pedal

I could buy a bike from Fenetic Bikes for about £700. It is almost identical to the Woosh Santana I bought five years ago for £625, so bikes at a reasonable price are still available.

you make an interesting point. I know they are still available. The problem is the running costs relentlessly go up year after year. If we continued selling the Santana, the lower exchange rate would force us to price it at £699. We moved the components up a notch, 13AH battery instead of 10AH, disc brakes instead of V-brakes, SWX02 motor instead of SWXH, better crankset, stem, handlebars, propstand etc we sell the Santana2 competitively at £899 instead of £699 for the Santana specs. That helps pay the wages.