Shouldn't the current E4 road show be targeted at customers not dealers

The group of E4 e-bike suppliers who are publicised elsewhere on this forum is specifically aimed at bike dealers who may be interested in stocking e-bikes. My experience to date in this industry is that there is already a surfeit of bike shops who want to sell e-bikes,the main problem is getting them to stock,even one sample bike. Quite frankly I have never been involved in an industry which is so risk averse to investment in stock and this makes it difficult for customers to experience the e-bike concept and enjoy a choice of product.

In my opinion what is needed is a road show that involves existing e-bike dealers,the importers and potential customers. The upcoming 'ride an e-bike day' being organised by Atmosphere bikes of Bristol and the East of England e-bike rally at Great Yarmouth are good examples. They should be open to as many e-bike suppliers as possible,at all price points of the e-bike spectrum. The success of the Tour de Presteigne,albeit in a difficult location,showed the demand for such events.

It did occur to me to start to organise a Kudos Road show around the Kudos dealers but this would be a much more popular and stronger event if it involved a number of other suppliers, I would welcome competitors so as to offer a wider choice to customers,competition is always good for business.

I will contact the current Kudos dealers to determine whether they would be interested in organising such an event in their locality.

If you think such an event would help with your e-bike choice please make contact with your local Kudos dealer.

Dave

KudosCycles

I am not sure I understand your point David.

A group of like minded manufacturers that sell some of the best bikes available and offer supreme service are investing in four road shows and inviting bike shops and other interested parties to see our range of bikes in an area big enough for them to try them out. So far they have been VERY successful. We will later in the year be doing the same for the final users.

You seem to like to go it alone and don't aprove of anything that brings the industry together such as E4 or BEBA this is fine but please don't knock others who want to work together promoting electric bikes to both the cycle industry and public alike.

All the best

David

Edited February 22, 201214 yr by Wisper Bikes

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Absolutely Roger, there is a place and necessity for cheaper bikes, and these are available from both BEBA members and the E4 group. However if we look at the hyper successful German and Dutch markets the average price is much higher.

It is so easy to sell anything on price. I believe more importantly the market needs to be built on good value for money which includes excellent service, high quality electric bikes that will last for years, supplied by electric bike dealers and manufacturers who will be around for long enough to support those bikes.

All the best

David

The LBS need your help to push and educate Joe public. There is very little interest in Durham, most of the bikes dont look like 'real bikes' so wont stand the hammer of the tracks and the better bikes are too expensive is all we get, or I thought those were against the law.

Help us guys get the message over.

Hi Members

I totally agree with wisper SUPPORT SUPPORT and proven support after many years

I remember a wisper bike where the part off the frame where the seat post went in NO problem wisper gave him a new frame

Electric bikes get beaten to death our roads are trash covered in potholes and road salt so a very aggressive place to be and when problems happen you need SUPPORT

The other proven supplier has been Juicybike

and Oxygen and many others

Frank

David Miall....I am intrigued why suppliers such as Batribike or Freego,as BEBA members,were not invited to be part of the E4 road show?...perhaps their competitive price points did not match with the aims of E4?

E4 appears to offer very few bikes below the £1000 threshold,what concerns me is that it could give the impression that e-bikes are only for the wealthy.

Your reference to the dutch industry is a bit unfortunate in that the higher end of the dutch bike industry including Gazelle,Batavus,Sparta,Koga and Giant have all recently been fined heavily by the Dutch government for price fixing,the fines for Gazelle exceeded 10million euros,we have to be careful to avoid any suggestion that a similar 'concert party' of expensive e-bikes is not created here and that the market has full and broad access to all e-bikes,whatever the price spectrum.

As for Kudos going it alone that could hardly be further from the truth,if you read again my original posting I wish to be part of a national road show that includes Cyclamatic to Storck Raddar so as to allow customers to experience and ideally test ride the whole price range of e-bikes available.

Dave

KudosCycles

But many of us not interested in bikes below the totally arbitrary £1000 price point...Because we are realistic enough to know the quality of bike we require cost more. If your "into" cycling you will find the money.

That said, I think Kudos have come out of nowhere, been clever in identifying a place for themselves in the market, and gone about it well...

But many of us not interested in bikes below the totally arbitrary £1000 price point...Because we are realistic enough to know the quality of bike we require cost more. If your "into" cycling you will find the money.

 

That said, I think Kudos have come out of nowhere, been clever in identifying a place for themselves in the market, and gone about it well...

But it still needs the mass market for things to go anywhere and the majority of customers wont pay that much, most wont even pay 2/300 for a bottom end Giant, I paid almost that nearly 40 years ago for a Carlton. So at 1000 plus they are all walking away, not interested

Eddie>I agree that there is a place for e-bikes costing more than £1k...I personally think that the best drive unit for an e-bike is the Bosch crank drive. For that reason we will shortly be stocking the BH-Emotion range of Bosch crank drive bikes,namely the Xenion 650 and 700,these will cost about £2k. I see no point in cosmetic changes to our current hub drive bikes just to justify a higher price-if you check out the specification of our Kudos King bike it is good quality and value at £995.00.

Dave

KudosCycles

So at 1000 plus they are all walking away, not interested

Over 90% of the British public just walk away from any bikes, not interested. They wouldn't ride one, electric or not, even if given it.

That's the real problem.

It is so easy to sell anything on price. I believe more importantly the market needs to be built on good value for money which includes excellent service, high quality electric bikes that will last for years, supplied by electric bike dealers and manufacturers who will be around for long enough to support those bikes.

 

All the best

 

David

David, I too accept Roger's point but I agree fully with your remarks on the subject, particularly those about quality and lasting for years.

One only has to look on ebay to see the number of electric bikes, completely redundant since no support any longer exists and only suitable as projects for those who like to tinker in sheds, multimeter in hand.

Price is obviously important to a lot of people but unfortunately, as in everything else in this world, usually one gets what one pays for. A full array of good quality components fitted to a good lightweight frame is never going to be cheap, certainly not in the low hundreds so, if one looks just a little higher up the price range, it's possible to find ebikes available from dedicated sellers commensurate with your belief as described.

Eddieo has made the point on more than one occasion about the actual cost to buy a good quality non-assisted bicycle and he's dead right. Properly engineered bikes with good componentry from well-respected makers are simply not cheap. They can't be! It follows that ebikes will be no different and there will always be a market for those who are prepared and able to fork out that bit more for something a little bit special.

Some cheaper bikes may be described as good value for money as some of them are but it doesn't put them on a par with the top quality machines costing twice or three times as much. Conversely, not all high-end machines are as good as the hype which accompanies them and are basically overpriced. That situation is no different to other industries so no surprise there. That simply requires potential buyers to do their homework.

Those who would have us believe that their brand-new Ford Mondeo is as good as a brand-new Lexus GS delude themselves. The Ford is fantastic value but simply not constructed to the same standard as the Lexus. Having driven both, I know which one is more desirable and anyone who knows about washing machines understands that those from German manufacturers have always been far superior to those built by Italian firms. Sure, they cost more but they are better and last longer, needing less repairs. You pays your money......

If budget ebikes get more people out of cars and on to bikes, great! I just don't want our UK market to be awash with low-end stuff to the exclusion of the good quality machinery our continental neighbours have available to them.

In short, please can we have more high-quality ebikes in addition to the seemingly endless range after range of low-budget, adequate ebikes now competing for our business.

Indalo

Dave, all;

E4 is a sales exercise for 4 e-bike companies (hence the name E4). This is totally separate to BEBA which is legislation, business intelligence and promotion (also holding some events for its members, which Kudos aren't one of them). You are more than welcome to make an application to BEBA and benefit from its services and the events it will be holding, however E4 is a totally different animal with totally different objectives.

E4 does not represent the industry in anyway or make suggestions that there are no cheaper bikes available. It merely represents the brands that have formed the alliance do develop their businesses.

I hope that is clear.

Mark

Seems like the quality of the £2000 Kalkhoff is there Eddie, but judging by Dan`s comment on the front mudguard they don`t give you enough of it !

Not really... Most Bosch bikes are lighter, more powerful, with upto date design, normal bike wheel base and cost less......

edit: totally missed the humour in you post Rog..apologies!lol

Edited February 22, 201214 yr by eddieo

Those who would have us believe that their brand-new Ford Mondeo is as good as a brand-new Lexus GS delude themselves. The Ford is fantastic value but simply not constructed to the same standard as the Lexus. Having driven both, I know which one is more desirable and anyone who knows about washing machines understands that those from German manufacturers have always been far superior to those built by Italian firms. Sure, they cost more but they are better and last longer, needing less repairs.

You had me convinced on the Lexus, but then you blew it with washing machines. 16 years with one Italian machine, name not remembered, then 27 years with an Indesit 2092 which was still ok, but then a water pump hose leak which I could obtain and fix. However, decided to update to a newer one so now have a basic Beko which performs well and I bet will last years.

Meanwhile the Bosch and Miele service vans seem to live in my estate, constantly repeat visiting my neighbours washing machines to the extent that I would never buy either make, just too much trouble.

You had me convinced on the Lexus, but then you blew it with washing machines.

Meanwhile the Bosch and Miele service vans seem to live in my estate, constantly repeat visiting my neighbours washing machines to the extent that I would never buy either make, just too much trouble.

God knows what they do to washing machines round your way Flecc but the most thorough testing of white goods in the UK is conducted by the consumers association, AKA "Which". Washing machines have been tested repeatedly over a great many years and their testing regimes are extremely stringent. Over many, many years, there is one make which has reigned supreme and that is Miele.

In tests over the last couple of years, some other makes have caught up and are now competitive but if you look at the bigger picture say, over two generations, miele has been the one all the others aspired to.

Siemens and Bosch are up there in terms of reliability too but only Miele offer really long guarantees by way of special offer from time to time. 10 years last time I saw an offer!

Washers are much the same as exotic cars in as much as you can drive a Ferrari every day but it will break down frequently as will Maseratis and Lambos. They, of course, are Italian whereas a Porsche, which isn't Italian, can be driven just as fast as them and used every day without ever breaking down but maybe things are different down Croydon way?

Regards,

Indalo......btw, don't call me Blew it. Bob might get upset!

Eddie>I agree that there is a place for e-bikes costing more than £1k...I personally think that the best drive unit for an e-bike is the Bosch crank drive. For that reason we will shortly be stocking the BH-Emotion range of Bosch crank drive bikes,namely the Xenion 650 and 700,these will cost about £2k. I see no point in cosmetic changes to our current hub drive bikes just to justify a higher price-if you check out the specification of our Kudos King bike it is good quality and value at £995.00.

Dave

KudosCycles

Dave Hi.

When will you have the BH-Emotion available and does the switch to Bosch spell the end for bikes such as the BH E-Motion City 700+?

Thank you.

Regards.

vectra

Vectra...our initial stock of BH-Emotion bikes will be delivered next week-

Xenion 650-Bosch

Xenion 700-Bosch

Neo Cross-Samsung

Neo Xtreme-Sansung

Also a 650 for demo ride.

Sorry don't know the history of BH models,I picked those models that seemed to offer something different to the Kudos range. I rode the 650-found it a very robust genuine off road bike. The 700 was available in two frame sizes,a lightweight very smooth touring bike. Both exhibited the good hill climbing abilities of the Bosch crank drive.

The Samsung Neo Cross and Extreme were hub drive but exceptionally powerful.

The bikes should appeal to a rider demanding e-bikes with sports performance.

Dave

KudosCycles

The LBS need your help to push and educate Joe public. There is very little interest in Durham, most of the bikes dont look like 'real bikes' so wont stand the hammer of the tracks and the better bikes are too expensive is all we get, or I thought those were against the law.

 

Help us guys get the message over.

Hi Muckymits, Both E4 and BEBA would love to get involved, this is exactly what we are planning to do this summer. Joe public needs to understand why it is important to invest in a decent bike with great back up and why although such bikes aren't cheap, they represent great value for money. For instance the cost for running a comprehensive service department with full time staff, offices, spare parts stock and warehouse costs well over £50.00 per bike. Also most decent electric bike suppliers will offer £50.00 off a new battery when the old one is returned for environmental disposal. There are of course many other reasons that investing in a good electric bike supported by a solid firm is beneficial, and you can take it from me it has nothing to do with electric bike company owners getting rich!!

If I can be of any assistance in helping in the North East please drop me a PM.

All the best

David

Edited February 23, 201214 yr by Wisper Bikes

Thanks for your interesting comments Dave (Kudos),

We all run our businesses in different ways e.g. some of us blatantly use the forum to sell our bikes! There is nothing wrong with selling cheaper electric bikes. Indeed I belive they are very important for the market. I am particularly in favour as cheaper bikes help introduce the concept and get people onto electric biking in the first place. When a rider who has joined the market with an entry level bike is ready to buy their second electric bicycle, they are often ready to invest in a more refined or better built machine.

As Mark says E4 is completely different and separate to BEBA. E4 is a sales lead group whereas BEBA 1. Works for the industry and 2. Accredits good suppliers who are prepared to sign up to and demonstrate continued adherence to a rather tough code of practice. We at BEBA do a lot of work behind the scenes, we are currently involved at parliamentary level in sorting out the DfT issues with riding European standard bikes in the UK. This is something that will help everyone in the electric bike industry including Kudos. We are also working to resolve problems that will seriously effect every stake holder in the industry with respect to transporting lithium batteries.

We wouldn't dream of knocking any business that does not want to help the industry by supporting the work we do at BEBA and as Mark says you would be very welcome to apply for membership.

Best regards

David

Come on Elderfield, pay your dues and help the whole industry and customer base fight for the best deal for ebikes and accompanying legislation.

You'll gain loads of respect and probably lots more customers through your door if forum members and readers can feel assured that you will provide the kind of dedicated support offered by the likes of Juicybikes and Wisper, among others. I'm sure I'm not alone in having reservations about ebike retailers who choose not to subscribe to the BEBA protocols. If a seller is not prepared to attach business to BEBA, then I for one won't be buying any bikes from that seller.

Perhaps, of course, you already provide the great back-up of which I speak? If you do, then I cannot see any reason why you cannot accept the terms required of BEBA members.

So come on Dave; you've made some inroads into the market with your range of budget-priced bikes. If you're going to add one or two more expensive lines, then you really ought to be part of BEBA.

Indalo

ps If you have recently joined BEBA, please ignore my exhortation.