Shimano Bias in Favour of Unpowered Cycling

[flecc]

The reception of their STEPS e-bike system being lacklustre, Shimano seem to be less interested in that route. Their statement includes this:

"at Shimano we think that there’s a need to continue cycling by yourself"

Disappointing but not surprising in the circumstances, full information on this link:

Shimano view on cycling

 

[indalo]

Yes Flecc, it does seem like bad news for the electric bicycle fans and I'm left to wonder where ebikes will be 5 years from now.

Although we have members here who keep talking up the "new" Bosch system, I'm not convinced Bosch has moved the game on any. Equally disappointing in my view is the fact that we are seeing re-hashed technology in the form of Tonaro bikes being lauded by members when its only real attraction is the price.

Eddieo has sung the praises of the kit available from Wisper but, other than its potential for illegality like many other hub kits, I'm afraid this "breakthrough" technology is just another expensive kit in my book....and ugly with it!

I could probably enjoy the Storck Radaar but I baulk at the price. I can't imagine how much better it must be than something like the Tonaro range with its outdated technology.......or is it?

Still loving my Panasonic-powered bike,

Indalo

 

[oigoi]

Shame really the potential for shimano to develop some amazing electric bike kit is there, and develop it as an integrated solution rather than an add on to their existing products. Sounds like they're a bit stuck in a rut

 

[Kudoscycles]

I first saw the STEPS system at a dutch show-the salesman described the system as 'very high end' and maybe thats the problem-I read into that expensive. The system had some nice styling touches and satisfied so many elements of the e-bike system but it wasn't anything really new. Lets be blunt Shimano is found on so many bikes because it has a massive presence in China and it must be very competitively priced there-the Chinese play the game and are not ready to source from one supplier unless there is a price advantage,STEPS was just too expensive.
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[PJM]

Why is Indalo always so negative? Perhaps we should add a link to the Samaritans. At the end of the day we are talking about bikes here, nothing, more nothing less. I have now tried several systems. The first Scwhinn was a great idea but flawed battery. The Tonaro was a great piece of kit but very heavy and a few tweaks are needed on quality control. The UK supplier however needed no such tweaks and his customer service was excellent. The latest attempt was a Bionx. Extremely high quality and a great design. The fitting of the battery and electronics was a masterpiece of simplicity. Unfortunately the drop out on my Trek 6000 was just to shallow to retain the antislip. Again excellent customer service from Cycle Heaven. I am now waiting the availability of a Daahub. Personally I have no issues with the battery fitment or appearence. It has it central and low down. It is a battery on a bike get over it. Eddio's experience is very encouraging. One would hope that in five years time battery technology will have taken another leap forward and we will all be in e-bike heaven. If not ce la vie I repeat IT IS ONLY A BIKE !!! If Shimano don't want to play so what.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Flecc is probably the most knowledgeable e-bike enthusiast in the world....the chinese are still pretty much focused on hub drive,the problem is that anything innovative costs more and that just does not fit with their psyche...In five years time we will all be laughing at these seperate elements-chains,hub gears,crank drives,derailleur etc etc will all be encompassed in one unit...a company such as Suzhou Bafang will be turning out 10 million a year at $20.00 each and paying euro 2500 for a bike will seem like a joke...but it needs a system to evolve that the chinese will 'flatter' and that system has not yet appeared....I think that flecc was close with some of his ideas.
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[indalo]

the chinese are still pretty much fucused on hub drive
Dave
KudosCycles

You might want to edit your last Dave?

Indalo

 

[flecc]

the chinese are still pretty much focused on hub drive,the problem is that anything innovative costs more and that just does not fit with their psyche... and that system has not yet appeared....

They will be forced to change though, the competition from Bosch, Daum and the revamped Panasonic system is beginning to really hurt their hub motor sales, and the new crank drive unit from Pacific in Taiwan is very neat, beating all those three in that respect and likely to be popular. The BionX expansion and new hub motors from Japanese, Dutch, German and Swiss makers are reducing the Chinese share still further.

In 2006 when Giant stopped making the Panasonic motored Lafree, Suzhou Bafang had almost the whole EU and British markets. Now they have lost the entire premium price market and have suffered a big relative fall in their mid price market. At present the overall expansion of the e-bike market has helped to disguise how serious this is, but it's certain that they are worrying already.

 

[Kudoscycles]

flecc...you have no idea how useful that last post was....thanks Dave

 

[Graeme]

flecc...you have no idea how useful that last post was....thanks Dave

Dave
Will you be looking into supplying Crank Drive bikes in the UK?

 

[lemmy]

I'm confused. Should I be unhappy too? I bought a Kalkhoff because it seemed the nearest I could get to an unpowered bike with power when I wanted it. The downside was extra weight but I could live with that.

Now I'm reading all this ultra technical stuff. Did something make the Panasonic system obsolete? Has someone improved on it in a way that I really ought to know about?

What does all this mean to someone who just rides an ebike For transport?

 

[flecc]

I'm confused. Should I be unhappy too? I bought a Kalkhoff because it seemed the nearest I could get to an unpowered bike with power when I wanted it. The downside was extra weight but I could live with that.

Now I'm reading all this ultra technical stuff. Did something make the Panasonic system obsolete? Has someone improved on it in a way that I really ought to know about?

What does all this mean to someone who just rides an ebike For transport?

It means nothing at all for that person Lemmy. As I intimated in another thread, there is alway the better thing just around the corner, and if we always waited for it, we'd never buy anything and we still be living in caves.

Does your bike get you to work efficiently within the law? Of course it does, so in practice, where's the gain from waiting or grieving. I have very recently bought a new car that has only just topped 1000 miles so far, but my favourite runabout is my over four year old one. I can see me using that for very many years to come and long after the new one has gone. It's the relationship to me and my usage that counts for far more than the last word in technology in the latest product.

It's the sellers who see things differently of course, they would, wouldn't they!

 

[steveindenmark]

. Equally disappointing in my view is the fact that we are seeing re-hashed technology in the form of Tonaro bikes being lauded by members when its only real attraction is the price.

Still loving my Panasonic-powered bike,

Indalo

When I bought my Tonaro Enduro the price had nothing to do with it. I really mean that. But the Tonaro Enduro seemed to tick all the boxes I wanted ticking. I could have gone for the top of the range all singing and dancing electric bike but do I want to pay loads of dosh for a bike that will get hammered every day through the year on the way to work, along the tracks and through´the woods? No not really.

I have ridden ther Enduro for about 2000km now and it has been excellent in all respects except that the original seat is pants, but I replaced it with my brooks saddle. It get beat up and pounded every day and has been out on some really wet days this summer without one single problem. Not even a puncture. I have loaded it to high heavens to go camping, no problem. The bike is like a tank.

If I had paid the top of the range type of money I would not have been any more satisfied. In fact the Enduro has fallen over half a dozen times. If it had been a very expensive bike I would have molly coddled it and not had half as much fun.

The Tonaro has been worth it at any price and if it does die next year I can just afford to get a new one.

You cannot assume people buy them just because of the cost, you need to ask the questions.

Steve

 

[Graeme]

the new crank drive unit from Pacific in Taiwan is very neat, beating all those three in that respect and likely to be popular.

flecc, has this been adopted by manufacturers yet, and where can I read up on it?

 

[flecc]

flecc, has this been adopted by manufacturers yet, and where can I read up on it?

Only by Pacific themselves on the two small batteried electric bikes in this webpage and by German bicycle company AVE so far, but I will be surprised if it doesn't spread into other e-bikes.

Only read up is this story in Electric Bike Magazine.
.

 

[Graeme]

Thanks for that flecc, very interesting.