serious Commute -is it even possible

hello good people

I currently have a17mile each way commute in my car. Its mostly along a busy dual carrige way. Definately not a road I would want to cycle along. It is possible to get to my work from my village using back roads but this would bring the distance travelled to nearly 24 miles and the terrain is up, down with NO flat sections. Strava estimates it is around 3hrs of conventional push biking. I'm pretty sure I couldnt do it in that time. I'd like a maximum journey time of 1 and a half hours -ideally less. So thats an average speed of around 15mph. Presumably i could exceed that on the downhill sections but how close to my desired 15mph am i likely to be on the uphill stretches.

I work very long shifts (anywhere between 10 to 14 hours) and I dont know for certain that I'd be allowed to charge a bike at work, so ideally id like the bike to be able to make the journey, sit there for up to 14 hours and then make the journey back before needing to be charged again. Maybe thats just too much for an ebike? I've attached the proposed route and its profile

 

I'm currently considering the Kalkhoff Voyager. Anyone got any experience with them?

23.6 mi Road Cycling Route on Strava -.pdf

Most things are posible though it's the cost. Your target averaging 15mph followed by a 10-14 hour shift is challenging...I'd not want to turn up for a long shift after a knackering ride, particularily not day after day. Have you tried a run on a normal bike? You can carry a spare battery with the extra weight and cost offset. I do a thirteen miles each way on the flat though, for me it's the traffic , junctions and lights that kill the average despite putting plenty of leg work in.

 

Sorry it's not much help, just other considerations.

 

John

It's pretty easy to keep to the assist limit on the uphills; certainly on a decent motor, anyway. So I think that your average speed would be reasonably attainable. My battery is only a 370kwh one and that return journey might be on the cusp but should be fine for a regular 500kwh battery. I have a 2nd battery on order for my Focus, which would also easily exceed that range. Good luck with what you conclude

How fit you are has a big effect obviously

 

I can average 15-16mph on my 12 miles a day commute with a very hilly area and 2x25% grades thrown in one which is over 3/4mile long

I also do this with work boots and gear on and always a 30litre rucksack

I charge my battery once a week and it’s never flat for my 5 day rides

My bike also has 2.8” off road tyres so could be better again with road rubber but that would ruin the weekend riding

(Bosch cx and 500 batt)

My commute is 26 to 29 miles each way depending on the route I take and crosses the Mendip hills, 2200 feet of climbing. On a (really) good day I can do it in about 1 hour 35 minutes minutes on my Greenway Maxdrive bike - normally takes 1hr 45 minutes.. I have only done it about 5 times over the summer though as it is properly hard work to do it in that sort of time! (Club cyclist here, Mid 40s, overweight). So I would say it is probably just about doable, but I do charge my battery at work. I really wouldn't want to do it every day though.

... 24 miles and the terrain is up, down with NO flat sections...... I'd like a maximum journey time of 1 and a half hours .... I dont know for certain that I'd be allowed to charge a bike at work... Maybe thats just too much for an ebike?...Anyone got any experience ...

 

I have a 20 mile one way commute that's mostly up and down!

My thoughts:

The time is doable. Just. Depending on the actual gradient of the hills, you could very well manage to keep around 15mph uphill with something like a Bosch CX ,then of course downhill, you're on a heavy bike with gravity pulling you along! I often manage around 30mph downhill, making my average speed pretty decent, and well over the 15mph mark (its for this reason that I don't find commuting on my 'legal', non dongled bike too much of a problem on hilly terrain. I can imagine I might feel differently if I had a 20 mile FLAT commute though).

To keep up this speed, and also have enough energy (both you AND the bike) to be able to get back home (especially if you don't want to be too pooped the next day), you're probably going to want to ride in the highest power mode. Hills kill the battery. I doubt you're going to make nearly 50 odd miles in Turbo without charging at work.

Thanks for all the replies. Very usefull and has given me a lotlto think about. Im impressed that a 250w ebike is able totmske the journey (that seems to be the consensous) i can see that being able to charge the battery at work would be very handy or taking a spare charged battery.

I was thinking about it again today and even an hour and a half each way would turn my day into a 17+hour day. I'm reasonably fit but in my late 50's so Im not looking at doing that 4 days a week with any relish.

I'm going to look into 'deristricted' e biking. Though I would have to do it legally as I drive for a living and won't risk my licence in any way

I'm going to look into 'deristricted' e biking. Though I would have to do it legally as I drive for a living and won't risk my licence in any way

 

That’s one thing you technically can’t do

15.5mph and 250w nominal is legal

Anything else becomes an uninsured and unlicensed vehicle

And driving license wise that’s obviously not good if caught or involved in an incident

 

Everything else is doable with regard to your original post

That’s one thing you technically can’t do

15.5mph and 250w nominal is legal

Anything else becomes an uninsured and unlicensed vehicle

And driving license wise that’s obviously not good if caught or involved in an incident

 

Everything else is doable with regard to your original post

Ah. I thought it was possible to register a derestricted bike as a 'moped' but I'll look into that. I saw a vid on you tube where a chap fitted indicators and brake lights.... and reregistered

the 250W is the nominal rating which guarantees that your motor won't overheat at that level of usage.

You can ride the 24 miles at a reasonable average speed without breaking any law or the bank. It's the speed over the 15mph legal limit that uses a lot of battery. Speed increases air friction very quickly. For a return trip of 50 miles on a single charge, you'll need about 600WH at 15-18 mph, 1,000WH at 20-23mph.

the 250W is the nominal rating which guarantees that your motor won't overheat at that level of usage.

You can ride the 24 miles at a reasonable average speed without breaking any law or the bank. It's the speed over the 15mph legal limit that uses a lot of battery. Speed increases air friction very quickly. For a return trip of 50 miles on a single charge, you'll need about 600WH at 15-18 mph, 1,000WH at 20-23mph.

It must be added that this is assisted miles not overall miles

Ah. I thought it was possible to register a derestricted bike as a 'moped' but I'll look into that. I saw a vid on you tube where a chap fitted indicators and brake lights.... and reregistered

Not a standard bike no

You would need an S Pedelec

These are a pain to register etc and also you are limited to roads only (no cycle paths) and wearing a proper crash helmet for motor bikes .

I would have to do it legally as I drive for a living and won't risk my licence in any way.

 

I do not wish to put you off getting an electric bike but the above coupled with your very long work hours and the dual carriageway route would make me consider a used 125cc scooter, especially in the winter.

 

Much quicker and much safer in my opinion and obviously much less tiring.

 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/bikes/content/top-5-125cc-scooters

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/motorbikes/102081/honda-pcx-125-review

Seems like a nice scooter but servicing seems expensive.

I would have to do it legally as I drive for a living and won't risk my licence in any way.

 

I do not wish to put you off getting an electric bike but the above coupled with your very long work hours and the dual carriageway route would make me consider a used 125cc scooter, especially in the winter.

 

I'm starting to think along these lines myself. ive talked myself out of the 'souped up' electric bike. A scooter might improve my fuel costs (60-75mpg v my current 53mpg) Insurance would be around £100 fully comp and road fund guessing at £20?

Thanks again, everyone, for your help. The weak link in all this is probably me :-) maybe I should be looking at (say) replacing one journey a week and then seeing if it 'kills' me or, hopefully, i get fitter and up it to 2 journeys.... what i did in a previous job with a similar commute distance was to drive 2/3rds of it with my conventional pushbike in the back then cycle the final 7miles. Altogether more managable :-)

Edited September 17, 20187 yr by Jimmeee

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vmoto-Super-Soco-2018-TS-Red-Electric-1p-a-mile/153180432452?hash=item23aa43e844:g:T~0AAOSwk6dbm6hf

 

With two batteries, you could easily do the return trip.

I often manage around 30mph downhill, making my average speed pretty decent, and well over the 15mph mark (its for this reason that I don't find commuting on my 'legal', non dongled bike too much of a problem on hilly terrain.

 

Your right, I hadn't really thought about things this way. Its totally opposite to how it works when riding a non assisted bike. On a normal bike the more up and down your route is the slower your average speed will be. On an e assist bike (assuming CX or similar motor) then as you say with some decent up and downs your average speed can be a lot higher than 15 mph.

 

I must admit though I don't think I would fancy a nearly 50 mile round trip and working a shift anywhere between 10 and 14 hours. That would take some doing both mentally and physically. I take my hat off to anyone that can do that 4 or 5 times a week for more than a few months.

A scooter might improve my fuel costs (60-75mpg v my current 53mpg) Insurance would be around £100 fully comp and road fund guessing at £20?

 

For example, Honda PCX 125, under £3000 o.t.r. , road Tax £19, fuel economy would be at least 100 m.p.g. If you don't have a motorcycle license you have to factor in the cost of a CBT every 2 years if you don't pass the relevant test.

If you passed your car test before 2001, you can ride a 50cc scooter (classed as a moped) without training or L plates.

Pete.

Thanks again, everyone, for your help. The weak link in all this is probably me maybe I should be looking at (say) replacing one journey a week and then seeing if it 'kills' me or, hopefully, i get fitter and up it to 2 journeys....

Traditional advice is to try and split the commute over 2 days. Take the bike to work in the car then ride home, do the opposite the next day.

Traditional advice is to try and split the commute over 2 days. Take the bike to work in the car then ride home, do the opposite the next day.

:-) I had considered this but what I think I'm going to do is drive part of the way, park up and cycle the rest of the way. Then reverse it.

The motorcycle/scooter suggestion was tempting too but i do love to cycle and although it would save costs on fuel, buying a motorcycle would wipe out any financial benefits

Depending on the actual gradient of the hills, you could very well manage to keep around 15mph uphill with something like a Bosch CX

I'm an e-bike newbie, and I don't understand statements like this - could you explain to me please?

 

The implication is that a crank-drive motor is better than a hub motor at 15mph uphill on-road riding. But both are legally limited to 250W of power. Are you saying that the hub motor wouldn't be delivering 250W at 15mph uphill? Or that the crank motor would be delivering more than 250W at 15mph uphill? Or that the hub motor is somehow less efficient at 15mph (despite it not being affected by any drivetrain losses)?

 

I'm genuinely interested where you're coming from...

But both are legally limited to 250W of power.

that figure is nominal, the guaranteed power that the motor won't overheat.

If you ride on a flat road at 15mph without much headwind, the energy required is about 200W, if you pedal a bit, say you contribute 70W through pedaling, the motor would supply about 130W. There is no way you would need all that 250W on a flat road without headwind.

The 15.5mph speed limit for assistance is on the other hand a permanent legal requirement. That's one key aspect where there is no fudging. That does not mean you cannot exceed it, going downhill for example, but that's where the motor will cut out. With a lightweight bike and fast rolling tyres, you can easily hit 30mph on a slightly downhill road.

E-bikes are allowed to exceed 250W when climbing hills or going against headwind. Typically, they can reach 500W-800W without breaking any law because it is limited to those bits of difficult roads. So heavy people need more help than lightweight people and that's allowed.

The reason that manufacturers choose different high power limit (500W-800W) is because more power needs bigger and heavier motors and batteries. So if you weigh 13st, you only need a about 500W top whereas someone weighing 25st will need something like 800W power on hills. The maximum power is usually indicated by the Amp rating of the controller, 15A for up to 14st, 17A for up to 20st and 20A for 20-25st.

The implication is that a crank-drive motor is better than a hub motor at 15mph uphill on-road riding.

I think the forum is evenly divided on which is better.

Crank drive is like an engine fitted with a manual gearbox, you can select the best gear to suit so eke out a little more performance. Overall battery consumption is much more a factor of speed than the type of motor.

The implication is that a crank-drive motor is better than a hub motor at 15mph uphill on-road riding.

In my experience, the higher torque MTB crank motors, such as from Bosch and Shimano, are more capable at getting you quickly to 15mph on a steep incline. So your ability to average that speed on the uphill sections is greater if you get there sooner... I have seen riders of other E-bikes show surprise at being able to climb at 15mph