Scooters - blooming good value

[103Alex1]

Just seen this. It's not electric but it's road legal it seems and 125cc.

Minibike POLINI Moto 125 XP4 | SIP-Scootershop.com

When you consider a good 250W Kalkhoff or a nice carbon road bike with high end components is at least 25% more than that it really does make you think, doesn't it. You pay a pretty high price for all this pedalling exercise malarky !

With the added complexity and complications of high powered eBikes, together with low fuel consumption of small scooters, it's definitely a niche market.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

This or a Woosh Sirocco?
PULSE RHYTHM MOPED 50cc (Scooter Style) on eBay!

 

[Scimitar]

Oh, "City CULT Bike"; right, gotcha.

 

[103Alex1]

This or a Woosh Sirocco?
PULSE RHYTHM MOPED 50cc (Scooter Style) on eBay!

Seems crazier and crazier what bicycles cost.

Oh, "City CULT Bike"; right, gotcha.

I didn't even see the "city cult" thing. It just looked like a nice bike to me, better than many in its styling (a friend just bought one and sent me a link) ... if I had a petrol scooter it wouldn't be less than a 125CC. Seem to remember they'll happily do 70mph on the flat and that one looked like it would be OK on dirt roads also. The ones I glanced at outside our local scooter shop whilst stopped at a traffic light had £3k - £4k price tags on them - which seemed the usual astronomic rip-off.

I don't know much about petrol scooters or motorbikes - have only rented them abroad and that's about the sum total of it.

 

[Chainring]

I must admit, I went through all this before buying my Santana. I have had motorbikes in the past, so for about £800, I could have bought a useful Chinese motorcycle from a firm that has all the spares available. (Search for Chinese Motorcycles). However, it meant I would have had all the petrol, helmet, insurance things to sort out, I would be on the road with all the other traffic on my way to work in the morning, and I would be the only one in the household who would be able to use the machine. With an EBike, I can use it just as I have been using my bike for the last 23 years, but all the other members of the family can use it as well. The little use I have had so far with my Santana has really pleased me. I have completed trips feeling as if I had not been anywhere! I get to work and back in exactly half the time it took me before, although racing against the clock is not my main purpose in life, these days. If my recent operation has not had any strange effects on my body, I should be back on the road before the summer ends.

 

[Artstu]

Just seen this. It's not electric but it's road legal it seems and 125cc.

Minibike POLINI Moto 125 XP4 | SIP-Scootershop.com

That's expensive. I'd stretch to buying from the better known Japanese brands at that price. Most Chinese bikes are cheap, however the quality and parts back-up just isn't there yet.

A LIFAN 110cc MONKEY BIKE. HONDA COPY AT A REDUCED PRICE! | eBay

and even cheaper, not easy to road register though New 2013 49cc 2-Stroke Pit Bike/ Mini Dirt Bike/Off Road/Buggy/ATV/ 49cc | eBay

a better bet than the first posted bike perhaps 125 supermoto, 125cc dirt bike road legal, road legal large pitbike | eBay

 

[103Alex1]

^^ That's very interesting, especially the last one.

I take the points about traffic to an extent, but as I ride my bikes on the road almost all the time then certainly in and around urban areas it makes little difference.

I guess the main downside for me is the usual one with bikes of any kind.... not enough storage / carrying space. You trade off easier parking (for the most part anyway) with trying to cram stuff into small spaces. And UK weather at higher speeds brings a whole load more issues. But a £17 RFL is hardly a concern - cost of a few months' supply of Park Tool chain cleaner !

Guess the main point was really the value coefficient for a mode of transport seems massively higher for scooters, compared to high powered eBikes in particular - the latter being way too much money in a comparative sense for what they are - especially ones you buy ready built. Compared to a regular eBike for commuting and the power constraints / limitations the difference is even more marked ... unless you want the exercise, but it all really shouldn't cost so much.

I know it's down to demand and supply with eBikes but that's the point - a niche market with low demand is an expensive luxury in truth. With regular bikes it's just daylight robbery !

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's a shame we can't have these, which are very popular in China, where they sell for between £150 and £250 depending on the spec. If we could have budget electric vehicles like them it would do a lot to popularise this mode of transport:

 

[flecc]

Yes Alex, mopeds are very good value even in isolation, but when compared to e-bikes the value is extraordinary.

Although the usual reason given is the small e-bike market size, that's looking less realistic in parts of mainland Europe where e-bike sales must easily match moped sales, the Netherlands and Germany being examples. Perhaps it would be fairer to judge from comparative worldwide sales of the two types.

 

[GaRRy]

Yes Alex, mopeds are very good value even in isolation, but when compared to e-bikes the value is extraordinary.

Although the usual reason given is the small e-bike market size, that's looking less realistic in parts of mainland Europe where e-bike sales must easily match moped sales, the Netherlands and Germany being examples. Perhaps it would be fairer to judge from comparative worldwide sales of the two types.

Also need to take into account a lot of these cheap mopeds/motorbikes are using a vast amount of generic parts which also brings the price down. eg a lot of the 125's are using cloned/licensed Honda engines of a design that has basically existed with minor improvements for best part of 50 years. There is very little development and tooling set up costs in these bikes.

 

[103Alex1]

Also need to take into account a lot of these cheap mopeds/motorbikes are using a vast amount of generic parts which also brings the price down. eg a lot of the 125's are using cloned/licensed Honda engines of a design that has basically existed with minor improvements for best part of 50 years. There is very little development and tooling set up costs in these bikes.

Indeed ... but a similar thing could be said for a lot of the groupsets. And they still cost about the same as a moped before you've even got a frame to sit on !

 

[Synthman]

I was looking at getting a new bike, either a pedelec or e-scooter or another contraption like mine, but for the price of a decent pedelec I bought a SYM 125cc petrol scooter. I think I get to pick it up from the dealer this weekend. The biggest rip-off was the insurance. Fully comp was out of the question as it was more than half the price of the bike for a year.

 

[103Alex1]

I was looking at getting a new bike, either a pedelec or e-scooter or another contraption like mine, but for the price of a decent pedelec I bought a SYM 125cc petrol scooter. I think I get to pick it up from the dealer this weekend. The biggest rip-off was the insurance. Fully comp was out of the question as it was more than half the price of the bike for a year.

Maybe that'll prove to be the killer. You're either too old, too young, used to be the wrong sex (no, that came out wrong - I mean before the anti-discrimination thing happened ), a deemed delinquent or there's always something else that makes the insurance some ridiculous sum.

I went for years with no licence black marks, years and years of no claims bonuses etc etc and always got stung for hundreds of pounds a year on a car. One way or another it's the one thing which is out of control - and most of it's paying for losses caused by uninsured drivers - and massive profits.

I very nearly insured my eBikes ... and then decided not to bother. Foolish maybe but price for a decent policy was ridiculous.