Recommendations for occasional user

[Mike Robinson]

I've just come back from hols where I saw a Giant 2.0 twist with twin batteries on the pannier. I normally ride a scooter/motorbike to get to work (about 8 miles with gentle hills) and thought something like this would make a good back up bike or just for fun rides/shopping etc.

I prefer the city or dutch styling. I prefer the idea of a throttle. It needs to be robust and easy to secure when I get to town. I'd want lights and a rear rack. I'd prefer not to spend a fortune.

Current choices are:

• Ezee lite (the new one) +ve price, range and looks -ve hub drive
• Powercycle Salsbury LPX +ve weight -ve range
• Vita Gazelle +ve looks and features -ve no price, no details
• Giant +ve looks, -ve no price

Thoughts anyone?

Mike

 

[flecc]

I have to query some of your + and - indications.

* Ezee lite (the new one) +ve price, range and looks -ve hub drive

I take it you mean the eZee Liv, in which case it's a powerful bike so the hub motor isn't a particular disadvantage relative to the others.

* Powercycle Salisbury LPX +ve weight -ve range

The Salisbury's range isn't a problem judging by A to B's test of the ladies version (Windsor), which indicated about 25 miles. In real world terms that's quite good. It's a quite low powered bike though

* Vita Gazelle +ve looks and features -ve no price, no details

Ditto.

* Giant +ve looks, -ve no price

The new Twist II is well outside what you need with around 35/40 miles range. The two batteries are awkward in practice and limit pannier capacity. Giant's battery prices are often very high, so replacement could come as a shock. The previous Twist's NiMh battery costs £250, and the new bike uses two similar ones! I think the bike is about £1100 or a bit more. It's sister model, the Twist I, is £1400 with Li-ion batteries.
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[Mike Robinson]

I'm afraid I've never even sat on an electric bike so all my thoughts are just a new guys guesses. I'm just picturing myself gliding into central London from Streatham, stopping outside a street cafe or popping into a museum before gliding on my way.

It would be neat to have a table or excel sheet or database search tool that allows you to say this is my max price, range etc but obviously that's difficult. Problem is you go to the web sites and they don't give half the info you need (price and weight for instance).

I guess probably the most important info is user feedback/reviews. But even these seem difficult to come by. Perhaps you should offer a small prize (an alien tool thingy) for the best review sent in. But make sure people put down their size, price, weight, battery type etc, and obviously their opinions of the machine.

Mike

 

[rsscott]

Hi Mike,

I would definitely advise you to try out several models. Nothing can beat actually riding the things.

As for a guide, it has been discussed many times on the forum, especially hill climbing ability! There is no simple calculator but over the next fews weeks I will try to collate the information we do have into some form of guide which will at least highlight the issues and point people in the right direction. Once you narrowed down your selection, it might also be worth checking the A to B back catalogue to see if a more in-depth has been undertaken.

As for user feedback, we do have a slightly more formal section on the main site here:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/categories/Reviews/Bike-Reviews/

cheers
Russ.

 

[flecc]

I agree it's best to try first, but any of the bikes we discussed above will do the Streatham - Central London run with ease. The slight upslope of Streatham High Road outbound and Brixton Hill inbound are relatively gentle inclines, and only Regent Street, SW1 if you go that way is what could be called a climb, short though.

Perfect electric bike territory, just buy and enjoy!
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[flecc]

Ezee bikes are available to try in London if you'd like to do that. The Liv is still awaited at present, but some others can be tried meanwhile. Here's the details to arrange a ride:

London & South
Torq, Chopper & Quando
London W2 Bayswater/Queensway
Call for details
Tel: 0207 792 3077
Email: fiftycycles@50cycles.com

Other make suppliers may also be able to arrange a test ride for you.

 

[Mike Robinson]

Strangely enough I've just come back from there when I read your post! I tried all the bikes out - the workmen on the corner looked quite confused as I whirred past on a different bike each time. It was a perfect sunny day for a bike ride (even if I didn't turn any pedals once).

It's definitely a change to riding my scooter (80mph compared to 15mph) and the throttles on the other side. I also found it quite odd going allong and changing gear and finding nothing happened - it was only when I stopped that I realised the gears were for pedalling and not for the motor. They all seemed well made and easy to ride. Tim seemed quite happy to just let me whir round and round the block without even trying to sell one (probably the best way to sell anything).

I don't understand the in built limitation of 15mph though as a normal bicycle when pedalled hard will get over 20mph. Wouldn't it be better to have a dial or software code (assuming it's processor controlled) that would say what country it's in and this is the legal limit. This way you could ride legally and slowly or a little less legally as the mood took you but at least that way it would be the owner and not the supplier that takes responsability.

At the moment I believe I'm going to order the ezee liv and hope both my wife (5' 6") and myself (6' 2") can use it.

Mike

 

[flecc]

I don't understand the in built limitation of 15mph though as a normal bicycle when pedalled hard will get over 20mph. Wouldn't it be better to have a dial or software code (assuming it's processor controlled) that would say what country it's in and this is the legal limit. This way you could ride legally and slowly or a little less legally as the mood took you but at least that way it would be the owner and not the supplier that takes responsability.

Mike

It's usually not a built in limitation Mike, the motor's internal gearing is generally arranged so that the maximum natural speed of the motor corresponds to 15 mph roughly, in accordance with the law.

If it were geared higher to allow it to rise to 20 mph for example, the hill climbing would correspondingly suffer, since it's basically like changing up a gear. There's no point in doing that when you think about it, unless you deliberately set out to create a speed machine like the Torq, aimed at the sporty rider who's prepare to make up for the hill climbing deficit with effort.

Conversely, some machines like the Chopper are deliberately geared lower to get much better hill climbing at the cost of speed, that bike going to 13 mph instead of 15 mph maximum assisted.

As you've said, you're free to pedal as fast as you wish.

In Switzerland and now in Germany, there's a different class of faster bikes permitted about 20 mph, but they are subject to extra regulations like compulsory insurance, helmets etc.
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[Mike Robinson]

I appreciate that that is the way it is but I assume hub motor manufacturers produce bikes for a world market rather than just europe - and I assume the max speed is different in different countries (oddly 20mph in safety the concious US). So I'd assume they have ways of altering the performance of their motors - if at the expense of range. Maybe I should just add bigger tyres.

It's not a show stopper for me, it's just you guys are comparing going up a hill on an electric bike with doing the same on a push bike where as I can't help but compare to my scooter (which is obviously unfair on the e-bike).

The electric shopper bike ammused me though, it started off with a wheel spin on the cobbles and accelerated quite quickly too - maybe I'm just a bit ham fisted with the throttle

Mike

 

[flecc]

The gearing isn't changed or the motor modified for the USA Mike, a different more powerful motor is usually used, which therefore gives the 20 mph without losing the hill climbing that we would suffer. For example, the eZee Sprint, Cadence and other models that use the same motor have a 250 watt motor for Europe, and a 350 watt motor for the USA.

The Torq alone keeps the same motor as it's already geared for 20 mph in the UK, but with a limiter added.

The reverse applies from the USA. The BionX motor is 350 watts in it's home market over there, but a different slower 250 watt version is exported to Europe.

Re: The Chopper. That's the low gearing that creates that wheel spin. I think it would have trouble towing a trailer uphill without some ballast over the front wheel!
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[Mike Robinson]

Fair points.

Anyway I've just ordered an Ezee Liv and am clearing some space in the garage for it. The wife is already asking how low the saddle goes. So I guess I'm a fully paid up (if bikeless) member now

Mike

 

[flecc]

Yes indeed Mike, congratulations on your new forthcoming bike. Sounds like you have the same space problems that I have.

I think you'll really enjoy the electric biking, it has a different sort of appeal, and in the better weather is particularly enjoyable. After first getting into it, I got rid of my Honda CB500R, since that was a decreasing pleasure with all the restrictions these days, and 40 limits covering much of the south of England. The near complete freedom from restrictions and bureaucracy of an e-bike is very welcome in our heavily controlled life.

Others like them too, so don't do as another member did and forget to lock it.
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[Mike Robinson]

Sadly I rarely throw anything away -

• a scooter
• a motorbike (a 1300 and truth be told too big for me)
• a paramotor (a sort of ultrlight aircraft)
• I even still have my first car in there for nostalgic sunny days

all I need now is a very small boat

Mike

 

[flecc]

I did throw my car and everything else out of the garage at one time while I fitted out a small cabin cruiser. My garage is in a block of them, and at the time was the only one that didn't have a badly leaking roof, being completely dry but with a boat in it!

That got transferred to a marina at Littlehampton after a while and gave some years of pleasure, but the maintenance work got me down in the end.
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