Rear light/lasers

[jerrysimon]

These look like fun

New 2012 Bicycle Bike 5 Led Red Laser Beam Cycle Lights Rear Tail Light Lamp | eBay

Regards

Jerry

 

[Blew it]

I'm currently looking at various high intensity LED's and strobes for daylight running, this one certainly looks interesting.

Just this morning when driving into town, I was reminded of the importance of daylight running-lights. The road was very wet with the low winter sun reflecting from it. Situations such as this, and of course late evening summer sun are very dangerous for cyclists. A couple of years ago, a lady cyclist tragically lost her life here in Swindon because a following car and skip-truck simply could not see her against the sun's glare. I honestly believe that lady would still be alive today, had the machine been fitted with a high intensity rear light or strobe light.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

Hello Guys,

We have been approached by this light manufacturer/similar a few times recently.
Although it does look good, it is still illegal to use lasers on the public roads.

If you want our advice (we sell hundreds of different bike lights every month) the best rear lights about at the moment for the money are these -
Moon Meteor And Comet Lights - First Look - BikeRadar
Moon Comet Rear Light £31.99
Super bright, pictures just don't do it justice. Can see it up to a mile away. Also fully USB rechargeable. And has side lights so can be visible from the side too.


If you live near Petersfield or Alton (Hampshire) pop in and well show you just how effective these little lights really are.

P.S don't look into it if you want to see for the next ten minutes

Regards

 

[jackhandy]

Is a rear light so bright it'll dazzle you if you're close-to actually legal in this country?

Really doesn't sound like a great idea on wet roads.

 

[jerrysimon]

There are also some 1W or 2 * 1/2W Smart lights for a lot less money which or more than ample brightness.

I have ordered a laser one, simply because they look fun

Regards

Jerry

 

[billadie]

We have been approached by this light manufacturer/similar a few times recently.
Although it does look good, it is still illegal to use lasers on the public roads.

In that case, I'll stick to exhaust seeking missiles

 

[Jeremy]

I think there may be some confusion over the law here. There has been no legal ruling on using laser light sources for vehicle lighting, AFAICS and no mention of lasers being illegal in any statute relating to bicycle lighting either.

Bicycle lighting falls under the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations, not the simplest bit of statute law around, but because of EU harmonisation many of the restrictions that made cycle lights that don't use filament bulbs illegal have been removed.

This means that any light source, including solid state lighting such as LEDs or laser diodes (or even HID if you wish) may be used in either a front or rear light. The remaining restriction is that the light must be approved to an acceptable EU standard, which means either the old BS 6102/3 standard (which was the one that used to mean that non-filament bulbs were unacceptable) or any other EU standard. The lights must bear the appropriate marking to show that they are compliant.

If these laser marker lights bear an acceptable approval mark, then they are perfectly legal to use in the UK, even though they use laser diodes as the light source. If they don't bear an appropriate approval mark then they are not.

In practice, there are many cyclists riding around with illegal lighting (i.e. lighting that doesn't comply with any accepted EU standard), especially rear lights, yet it is extremely rare indeed for any action to be taken. As these laser rear lights seem to pose no risk to other road users, then I would suggest they are going to be seen as acceptable in practice, even if they do not bear an appropriate approval mark.

They are not illegal just because they use laser diodes as one of their light sources, as any light source is now legal for vehicle lighting, and has been for the past 9 years.

 

[indalo]

Laser lights on bicycles would be used for the best of reasons, ie; safety. The actual lights are not illegal per se but they have already been classified into various groups and some products have been deemed illegal for sale in the UK.

The only problem I can see is, because there is an element in society who will always seek to abuse rules and laws, there may be some who would seek to mis-use illegal lights because, as yet, no lighting regulation exists precluding their use on bikes. There does exist however, some legal precedent where courts, in association with the H&S Executive, the HPA and various health experts, have decided that either the possession of or the wilful mis-use of certain laser products is in fact illegal. I'm thinking particularly of the blinding of aircraft pilots here.

Be that as it may, I'm not convinced that those legal, laser lights currently available present any such danger nor are they all that much better than the best bicycle lights on the market. I think it's one of those areas which could do with clarification.

Indalo

 

[oigoi]

Be interested to hear if its any good jerry

 

[Jeremy]

Laser lights on bicycles would be used for the best of reasons, ie; safety. The actual lights are not illegal per se but they have already been classified into various groups and some products have been deemed illegal for sale in the UK.

The only problem I can see is, because there is an element in society who will always seek to abuse rules and laws, there may be some who would seek to mis-use illegal lights because, as yet, no lighting regulation exists precluding their use on bikes. There does exist however, some legal precedent where courts, in association with the H&S Executive, the HPA and various health experts, have decided that either the possession of or the wilful mis-use of certain laser products is in fact illegal. I'm thinking particularly of the blinding of aircraft pilots here.

Be that as it may, I'm not convinced that those legal, laser lights currently available present any such danger nor are they all that much better than the best bicycle lights on the market. I think it's one of those areas which could do with clarification.

Indalo

The law is fairly clear, as I mentioned above. Laser diodes as a raw light source are legal in a vehicle lighting application, provided that the light fitting that they are used within carries an appropriate approval. That approval will be based on the light output and beam pattern meeting stipulated limits.

Visible light laser diodes only become a hazard when used with specific focussing optics that increases the light intensity in the beam to the point where it becomes hazardous, either by presenting a risk of dazzling or temporary or permanent eye damage. The risk with visible solid state lasers is not from the laser light source itself, it is from the collimating optics within whatever fitting it is used with.

I have a few small visible red laser diodes here and they are very similar to ordinary LEDs when operated with no lens assembly. They don't present any risk at all until a lens is fitted in front of them to focus their output. Because of the coherent nature of light from a laser source, it is relatively easy to collimate it into a high intensity beam which is what creates the risk. In this case the design of the light fitting seems to spread the laser beam into a divergent line, so reducing or removing any dazzle risk.

 

[eddieo]

Is a rear light so bright it'll dazzle you if you're close-to actually legal in this country?

Really doesn't sound like a great idea on wet roads.

Who cares! If it makes the car driver slow down and recognise your existence job done. My double flasher version is like a UFO

 

[Caph]

We have been approached by this light manufacturer/similar a few times recently.
Although it does look good, it is still illegal to use lasers on the public roads.

I don't know why we are even responding to these now. This forum has become a sellers market spouting whatever nonsense sells, no matter how patently wrong it is.

 

[jerrysimon]

Ha ha I only just read that post re the lasers being illegal.

I agree sellers jumping on posts with this kinda of nonsense is tedious though easily ignored or blocked for the future.

If you want our advice (we sell hundreds of different bike lights every month) the best rear lights about at the moment for the money are these

I wonder if the seller is registered as such on the forum ?

Regards

Jerry.

 

[Jeremy]

Ha ha I only just read that post re the lasers being illegal.

I agree sellers jumping on posts with this kinda of nonsense is tedious though easily ignored or blocked for the future.



I wonder if the seller is registered as such on the forum ?

Regards

Jerry.

It's one reason I rarely bother to post here, despite having been a member for 5 years or so.

The level of misinformation from vendors often seems greater than that one might expect, which has led me to conclude that some vendors are simply pushy sales people who can't be bothered to understand the products they sell and believe that BS sells no matter what.

Many years ago, if you went to buy something, be it a bicycle or whatever, you could be reasonably assured that the person selling it would know more than you about the product and that their information would be reasonably accurate. Now, it seems, the need for vendors to actually know and understand the products they sell has disappeared. This is a general trend, unfortunately you're now likely to find a high degree of product ignorance in pretty much any sales force, selling any item.

I find it amusing to read some of the vendor posts here where they get some of the technical fundamentals about the ebikes they are selling wrong, often laughably so, as well as the frequent errors made as to what is, or is not, legal.

I feel sorry for those customers who buy products in good faith, based on a sales pitch, only to find that what they've bought either doesn't live up to the expectation or worse, is illegal and cannot be used on the road. I can't help but think that the general level of inter-vendor bickering here does even the genuine vendors a disservice, as I'm sure I'm not alone in gaining the view, as a forum reader rather than regular contributor, that the whole ebike business is rather amateur and immature.

 

[NRG]

I for one wish you would post more Jeremy! You have knowledge and an insight that is unique and would help cut through a lot of the commercial BS present on the forum.

 

[indalo]

I'm sure I'm not alone in gaining the view, as a forum reader rather than regular contributor, that the whole ebike business is rather amateur and immature.

Correct Jeremy; you're not alone.

However, it has to be remembered, I feel, that the world of cycling within our little island is considerably smaller proportionally than that sphere in our major continental neighbours' countries. Where there is a bigger market, there is potential for greater profit and money being such a dynamic driver, as it is in all markets, those with a nose for business, venture capitalists, entrepreneurs, Del-boys or whatever we may call them will raise their game in order to maximise their sales and profits.

In short, the market, when big enough, will be led by larger players and their approach will be unlike that which persists today. Selling staff in bicycle showrooms will be far more professional than now, more in the manner of those stuffy MB salesmen but they will be armed with correct product information........woops! I think I've just been having a dream.

In a perverse kind of way, I suppose we ought to be grateful nonetheless to some of those amateurish traders because of the old adage about "little acorns"

Indalo

 

[jerrysimon]

I know I am probably plugging a company, but if I lived in the UK and had no DIY knowledge at all, one of my first ports of call to buy an ebike would be Wisper. Its certainly one of the main ones on this forum I have a lot of respect for. Reading posts and speaking to people with them, their sales and after sales service/care seem excellent.

As stated in other parts of Europe ebike users seem better served.

Anyway way off topic! still waiting for my illegal rear laser light to arrive

Regards

Jerry

 

[eddieo]

Why I certainly don't like the dealer shenanigans on here I think Martin decent enough and has only been on here a few days trawling for info and opinion on the Haibike brand he intends to stock..just look at Haibike thread, he has been very helpful...

At least it sounds like he is genuine and intends to support bikes with parts etc..even happy to support bikes bought direct from Germany. So how about giving a sucker an even break?lol

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

Why I certainly don't like the dealer shenanigans on here I think Martin decent enough and has only been on here a few days trawling for info and opinion on the Haibike brand he intends to stock..just look at Haibike thread, he has been very helpful...

At least it sounds like he is genuine and intends to support bikes with parts etc..even happy to support bikes bought direct from Germany. So how about giving a sucker an even break?lol

Hello guys,

Thanks for your comment Eddie.
Ok sorry if I upset any of you guys. I mean no harm.
Whilst I am technically a 'seller' as I own 2 bike shops. I joined the forum with the intention to ask opinions and views to certain products, and maybe if I could also help some users out with points and suggestions too that would be a bonus.

Ok so the 'illegal' point may have been bold, and thank you for shedding some 'light' on this (excuse the pun)

By commenting in this thread, I was in no way trying to put on the hard sell or promote 'whatever nonsense sells'. I was merely suggesting a light that has been very popular for us here for normal bike users and a lot of ebike owners alike.

With almost every UK manufacturer visiting us to show is their latest range of bike lights at the start of the autumn season we get to see a whole variety of bike lights, some which we would have never come across before. I get to pick what I feel is the cream of the crop to put on my shelves.

Therefore I was only pointing out a particular light that you guys may not have heard of before and offering it as a suggestion to look at.

We actually work closely with the local police to ensure people are lit up on the roads to ensure the safety of the cyclists in the area. Local people found to be riding at night with no lights or in-sufficient lighting were previously fined £30 by the police. We have partnered with the local authority to allow the fine to be 'waived' if the riders lights are signed off by us in-store. This does not mean they have to buy the lights from us, even though we would like it if they did

What I am trying to point out is the fact that the majority of the riders fined are local kids whizzing about on bikes at night with no lights at all. With this in mind I really don't like the idea of kids walking out the shop door with lights that incorporate laser pointers within them. Especially with all the national press recently associated around kids with laser pens/pointers.

Once again sorry, by commenting I was merely pointing out a really good light that I have come across that may be useful to some of you guys.

Regards
Martin

 

[eddieo]

You have to realise Martin that we are a battle scared bunch from the constant attacks from some very unsavoury outfits