Wisper Rear Brake Improvement - Suggestions Please

[chris301up]

Hi all. Just a quick question for those who may be in the know. I have a Wisper 705Se Works but the rear brakes have always seemed quite poor. I know rear brakes tend to be less efficient than the front brakes, but this doesn't seem to be very efficient at all. I have replaced brake pads a couple of times, set them using an alignment tool and regularly clean the rim. But still to no avail. This is a standard brake set up rather than, what I prefer, disk brakes. Anyone have an idea what I could try to improve this? Thanks

 

[AndyBike]

You should be able to lock up the rear quite easily(in the dry) on a decent rim brake. Maybe look to change to a different compound.
Is Koolstop still going ?, they always made good pads.

Other options might be to reroute the housing,to take a bit off the bend out it. or change the inner cable for something thicker and pre-stretched.

You could also look to replacing the entire wire/housing system. Jagwire or even shimano make brake kits that are all in one

 

[guerney]

Is this the second hand bike you bought? Maybe change the outer cable for low friction new, use stainless steel inner cable, make sure the rim is perfetly true, readjust and try again?

 

[chris301up]

Is this the second hand bike you bought? Maybe change the outer cable for low friction new, use stainless steel inner cable, make sure the rim is perfetly true, readjust and try again?

Yes it is the second hand bike I purchased a little while ago. Its been fine with the exception of 'squealing' brakes which I sorted. But now the rear brake is not as efficient as it was. I've just been looking at a stainless steel cable set for both front and rear. Would the Shimano Dura-Ace fit, or is that for a completely different type of system? I still don't get any notifications of any responses to my posts so have to log in from time to time to see what replies I get. Its so bloody annoying!

 

[guerney]

Yes it is the second hand bike I purchased a little while ago. Its been fine with the exception of 'squealing' brakes which I sorted. But now the rear brake is not as efficient as it was. I've just been looking at a stainless steel cable set for both front and rear. Would the Shimano Dura-Ace fit, or is that for a completely different type of system? I still don't get any notifications of any responses to my posts so have to log in from time to time to see what replies I get. Its so bloody annoying!

A photo of what rear brakes you have might help forum members to suggest suggestions.

 

[chris301up]

A photo of what rear brakes you have might help forum members to suggest suggestions.

Good afternoon. I don't have a camera or IPhone to be able to take a picture. However, I have attached a stock photo of the type of brakes fitted. Maybe this will help? Just to say I have today replaced the inner rear cable with a stainless steel spare I had in the garage and reset brake pads but still very much the same.

 

[guerney]

Good afternoon. I don't have a camera or IPhone to be able to take a picture. However, I have attached a stock photo of the type of brakes fitted. Maybe this will help? Just to say I have today replaced the inner rear cable with a stainless steel spare I had in the garage and reset brake pads but still very much the same.


View attachment 56537

A photo of the bike would be useful. Nearly all phones and tablets are capable of taking a photo, not just iPhones, and usually it's straightforward to copy one to a computer to upload if required, particularly if the phone has a removable memory card. If there is no removable memory card, transfer to a thumb drive is possible if the tablet or phone has OTG support. Perhaps call @Wisper Bikes, or send him a PM?

 

[matthewslack]

You can judge friction in the cable by releasing the curved metal tube from its bracket thing as though removing the wheel, and then feeling how much force is needed to move the cable in each direction. It should be practically zero. Also try wiggling the brake arms to check for excessive resistance in their pivots, and check the brake lever too.

Those long brake arms give a mechanical advantage of about 3.5, so it should be possible to develop enough force for good braking.

Finally, or even first, when my inner gear cables fail, in most cases they go stiff and the cause is one broken strand at the handlebar end getting wound around the rest of it, and then jamming in the outer. So have a good look there too.

 

[guerney]

But now the rear brake is not as efficient as it was.

If they were more efficient before, I suspect it's a gunge-related issue.

The V-brakes on my second hand bike were pretty bad, until I completely disasembled and cleaned them, lubricated, trued the wheels, replaced all inner and outer cables. Now they're really sharp.

 

[saneagle]

There are so many things that could be wrong:

• The two arms are not vertical when the brake engages. Adjust with block spacers and washers.
• The arms don't move symmetrically. Adjust with the tension screws on the side.
• The rims are gunged up. Clean with petrol.
• The cable doesn’t move freely. Lubricate or replace. Also, see last point.
• The rim doesn’t run true. Re-tension the spokes.
• The pivots are gunged up. Remove the arms and grease the pivots.
• Wheel bearings are worn. Check the rim for sideways free-play.
• The cable and noodle are being constrained or hampered from free movement. Nothing must touch the noodle nor the last 6" of cable. Racks are the worst offenders.
• Outer cable is broken or squished somewhere. Check the whole length.

If I was going to bet, I'd go with the arms not vertical at the point of engagement and only one moves when you pull the brake lever, because that's what I see every time someone brings a bike with rim brakes to me.

That's all I can do because you've given us nothing to go on.

 

[AndyBike]

Doesnt feel spongy at all at the lever does it ?.

if you pull on the lever several times in quick succession, you should feel the pads impacting the rim firmly, with a kind of a 'clacky' sound.

 

[Sturmey]

If

There are so many things that could be wrong:

• The two arms are not vertical when the brake engages. Adjust with block spacers and washers.
• The arms don't move symmetrically. Adjust with the tension screws on the side.
• The rims are gunged up. Clean with petrol.
• The cable doesn’t move freely. Lubricate or replace. Also, see last point.
• The rim doesn’t run true. Re-tension the spokes.
• The pivots are gunged up. Remove the arms and grease the pivots.
• Wheel bearings are worn. Check the rim for sideways free-play.
• The cable and noodle are being constrained or hampered from free movement. Nothing must touch the noodle nor the last 6" of cable. Racks are the worst offenders.
• Outer cable is broken or squished somewhere. Check the whole length.

If I was going to bet, I'd go with the arms not vertical at the point of engagement and only one moves when you pull the brake lever, because that's what I see every time someone brings a bike with rim brakes to me.

That's all I can do because you've given us nothing to go on.

If I may add one thing extra to your list, one thing I have come across twice lately is a problem with the 'rubber boots' stopping the brakes when the pads are worn down a bit.. The boots were made from a very hard pvc type material rather than the normal flexible rubber . In both cases, I simply cut off the boots. The bikes were made in Tunisia (Apollo)

 

[guerney]

I don't have a camera

It's useful to have a camera. You can buy one from a Cex shop for £1 or a little more, depending on what they have in stock in store, there are loads of Cex shops all over the UK (don't ask for directions ). Alternatively there's a £2.50 delivery fee if you order online. All of these cameras have a point and shoot auto mode. Two year warranty.

https://uk.webuy.com/search?categoryIds=948&categoryName=Cameras+-+Compact&sortBy=price_asc

Many of those older cameras use CF cards, which you can also order from Cex (50p and upwards) or ebay:

https://uk.webuy.com/search?stext=cf+card&sortBy=price_asc

Than all you'll need is a CF card reader for your PC or laptop, which at £3.33 could cost more than camera and memory card combined:

All in One 1 Memory Card Reader USB Adapter SD SDHC Mini Micro M2 MMC XD CF MS | eBay

Flash card type: CF card MicroSD card MS card M2 card MS card SD card. USB interface 4 slot flash drive, rewritable. Change the USB port. Quickly browse and edit files directly on the flash drive. Check if the cable is plugged in properly.

www.ebay.co.uk

Quite often, old cameras in particular will show up as an external hard drive when you plug them into the USB socket of a PC, in which case you won't need a card reader.

Avoid buying a cheap and old secondhand camera which doesn't use AA batteries.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi all. Just a quick question for those who may be in the know. I have a Wisper 705Se Works but the rear brakes have always seemed quite poor. I know rear brakes tend to be less efficient than the front brakes, but this doesn't seem to be very efficient at all. I have replaced brake pads a couple of times, set them using an alignment tool and regularly clean the rim. But still to no avail. This is a standard brake set up rather than, what I prefer, disk brakes. Anyone have an idea what I could try to improve this? Thanks

Hi Andy, we stopped using cable brakes many years ago, but there’s no reason these can’t be fixed. We stopped producing the Works models about 14 years ago so I’m really pleased to read it’s still on the road. drop a line to our support team, they will be able to either supply new parts or advise.

All the best, David

 

[chris301up]

A photo of the bike would be useful. Nearly all phones and tablets are capable of taking a photo, not just iPhones, and usually it's straightforward to copy one to a computer to upload if required, particularly if the phone has a removable memory card. If there is no removable memory card, transfer to a thumb drive is possible if the tablet or phone has OTG support. Perhaps call @Wisper Bikes, or send him a PM?

I only use an old Nokia 3210 phone. It doesn't have camera facility. Only telephone calls and texts. I can get my Son to take photo's of the bike and brake system when he comes to visit. I don't have an IPad but just use an old laptop to send and receive email's and messages. David from Wisper as messaged so will give them a shout. Thanks

 

[guerney]

I only use an old Nokia 3210 phone.

Out of interest, can you still send and receive texts using that? If so, which network does your Nokia 3210 phone use? The reason why I ask, is because texts have been disabled for my old HTC S710, and it isn't the phone because texts are also disabled on my GPS tracker bike light.

 

[chris301up]

Out of interest, can you still send and receive texts using that? If so, which network does your Nokia 3210 phone use? The reason why I ask, is because texts have been disabled for my old HTC S710, and it isn't the phone because texts are also disabled on my GPS tracker bike light.

Yes. Been using it today

 

[guerney]

I don't have an IPad but just use an old laptop to send and receive email's and messages.

Maybe buy a cheap old webcam for your laptop to take bike photos? Prices start at £1.

https://uk.webuy.com/search?stext=webcam&sortBy=price_asc

Old webcams can work for a suprisingly long time - I still use a decades old Creative Labs Video Blaster webcam, and it's older than all of those.

 

[guerney]

Yes. Been using it today

Which network is your phone on? They're sacrificing frequency bands to make way for 5G, 6G, 7G etc. so texts on your phone won't work much longer.

I'll try a couple of other networks...

 

[saneagle]

I only use an old Nokia 3210 phone. It doesn't have camera facility. Only telephone calls and texts. I can get my Son to take photo's of the bike and brake system when he comes to visit. I don't have an IPad but just use an old laptop to send and receive email's and messages. David from Wisper as messaged so will give them a shout. Thanks

Cameras cost virtually nothing these days:

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Smartphones are even cheaper. You can use them for calls texts, internet at filming. Why would you want to use a Nokia 3210?

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