Really flying

[neptune]

This thread has very little to do with bikes. Before I had the life changing experience of losing the sight of one eye, I used to fly radio controlled model aircraft. Like so much I have done in my life, I did it my way. I designed my own planes, and eventually taught myself to fly after a fashion. So my question is for any members who happen to be pilots of model[or fullsize] aircraft . Today, I only fly on the simulator, which I have been doing a lot of lately, as I am teaching my grandson to fly.
My question is about landing. Having completed the crosswind leg, and turned onto the final approach, how many times do you adjust the throttle between that point, and finally shutting the throttle on touchdown?
The only way I can land anywhere near the point that i want to is to constantly adjust the throttle all the way down. Are there pilots who can manage a "set it and forget it" method?
Maybe member Jerrysimon knows?

 

[Eaglerider]

Hi Neptune,

I've been a flyer for many years. I have a 2 seat Aero Designs Pulsar and it took me 5 years to build it! It's my favourite toy.

As you might imagine, your enquiry is a bit of a 'piece of string' question.

Nonetheless, use of power during final approach will vary according to aircraft type, wind gust and gradient factors. On a day with a steady light wind it is quite possible to get the aircraft trimmed out for descent a couple of miles out and do nothing until arrival at the runway and the final flare.

There are differing methods used, some like to 'drive' the aeroplane on a flat approach and will maintain a pretty steady power level until chopping the power just before touchdown. Personally, I prefer to stay on top of the imaginary glideslope with little or no power at all so I stand a better chance of making it to the airfield if the motor packs up, (fortunately a rarity).

Aircraft with higher wing loadings (WT/Area) are less susceptible to divergence from the intended path, whereas a lightly loaded wing (small aircraft, big wings), then the glidepath may be strongly affected by gusts and wind gradient and may require large power changes to maintain the planned flightpath.

Some aircraft land better with some power left on until after touchdown, again its down to weight, configuration, pilot competence and the mass of the aircraft being operated.

Therefore, if you know your aircraft, and with smooth conditions, power changes are generally minimal or non existent. On a windy day with high wind gradients approaching an unfamiliar strip, I would be managing my approach with varying amounts of power all the way down.

A good way to manage this process is to accept that, in descent configuration, pitch controls your airspeed, and power controls your rate of descent. Generally one fixes the position of the intended touchdown spot, and establish if it is moving up or down as you look over the front cowling. If the runway is moving up when checked against a fixed part of the cowling then you are undershooting, if the touchdown point moves down then you are overshooting. But even that is a simplistic perspective.

Hope this helps.

 

[smudger1956]

I'm with Eaglerider, there are so many variables, from a model flying view, if the conditions are stable and you nail your turn onto finals height every time, you could have a set and forget type setting, which would really be close throttle to idle and the descent would see you touchdown of the strip.
But normally you have to 'fly it' down using throttle inputs.

 

[smudger1956]

I'm with Eaglerider, there are so many variables, from a model flying view, if the conditions are stable and you nail your turn onto finals height every time, you could have a set and forget type setting, which would really be close throttle to idle and the descent would see you touchdown of the strip.
But normally you have to 'fly it' down using throttle inputs.

 

[neptune]

Hey thanks guys for some really detailed and useful information. My brother holds a Private Pilots license, but I could not ask him,as he is away on holiday. My models tend to have light wing loading , and Lincolnshire is always windy. Although the physics is about the same, model fling is very different to full size. We had a guy at our local club who had a PPL but it took him 2 years to learn model flying. Flying full size, as you say, you can keep the runway at a constant height in your windscreen. My equivalent to this , is that as the aircraft comes towards you, you try to keep it in a constant position relative to the same bit of cloud in the sky.
The full size pilot can look at the ground and the aircraft pitch angle at the same time. For us model guys, its one or the other. My landings on the simulator are getting much better, but the throttle is moving up and down like a fiddlers elbow!
By the way , these sims are brilliant. A choice of aircraft, and airfields, and you can adjust things like windspeed and turbulence. It comes with its own controll box "transmitter" and all for £20. The most fun you can have with your clothes on. Thanks again guys.

 

[shemozzle999]

Simulators are fine, but if you want to teach your grandson to fly then the club route will give him the best/safe grounding, especially if he is under the age of 14, the recommended minimum age for flying RC models.
You are very lucky as Lincolnshire is well supported for model flying:

British Model Flying Association - BMFA - Search for affiliated clubs by county

I fully support your effort with your grandson as the sport, yes it is a recognized sport, is an ageing and dwindling pastime and the more interest you can generate with the youth of today the better chance of reversing the situation.

 

[flecc]

is an ageing and dwindling pastime and the more interest you can generate with the youth of today the better chance of reversing the situation.

True of so many actual activities and sports now, today's youngsters mostly seem to be completely satisfied with the virtual activities on games machines and online. I suppose that fits in with today's obsession with having a perfectly safe environment for all children and the expansion of the age range of childhood. I actually heard a serious reference on TV the other day to a club being for children from 5 to 25 years old. Yes, it really was meant! At 25 I'd been out at full time work for 11 years.
.

 

[DJH]

I rang my 12 year old grandson the other day and he was at 33000ft somewhere between Manchester and Rome on his simulator. I must admit he's better at it than me and I was an airline pilot for 35 years! However he does have sailing lessons on a regular basis so I suppose he's learning about the vagaries of the weather for real, as well as learning some of the complexities of operating an aircraft in a safe environment.

Bet he ends up being a solicitor

 

[Synthman]

I actually have 13 years of flight simulator experience. I spent the whole of last night doing ILS approaches in an Airbus 319/320.

The best tip for flying the final approach is to control your airspeed by pulling back/forwards on the joystick, and control the rate of descent by increasing/decreasing thrust. If done correctly it shouldn't need any further adustment in the last few miles before landing.

As for the touchdown, on jet aircraft I pull the thrust to idle about 30-50ft off the ground. With lighter propellor aircraft and fighter jets I like to fly it straight onto the runway, and only cutting power right before touchdown, or just as the main gear makes contact with the ground.

I've never flown a RC plane, but I have tried helicopters.

 

[smudger1956]

Simulators are fine, but if you want to teach your grandson to fly then the club route will give him the best/safe grounding, especially if he is under the age of 14, the recommended minimum age for flying RC models.
You are very lucky as Lincolnshire is well supported for model flying:

British Model Flying Association - BMFA - Search for affiliated clubs by county

I fully support your effort with your grandson as the sport, yes it is a recognized sport, is an ageing and dwindling pastime and the more interest you can generate with the youth of today the better chance of reversing the situation.

Not only but also...........you have the BMFA Nationals, at RAF Barkston Heath over the August Bank Holiday, well worth a visit..( I have been going on and off since 1969...)

 

[shemozzle999]

Back in the days of single channel bang-bang radio you waited for the engine to cut out and come in dead stick losing height by applying alternate right and left rudder - the only control you had.

 

[neptune]

Actually, myself I have always been more of a lone wolf than a club person. Having said that I was a member of a local club for 4 years before I gave up flying due to eyesight problems . The club in question was at the old airbase at East Kirkby, where Lancasters flew in the war. The club, although official, and safety minded was, very laid back, as opposed to some clubs which are a bit like joining the RAF. As I no longer drive, I could not get there anyway now.
So now it is the simulator or nothing. I do try to encourage my grandchildren to engage in outdoor stuff, such as coming cycling with me. As we get older it is best to concentrate on the things we can do, rather than moping about the things we can`t.
Another problem that RC plots have is the fact that we have no instruments , so rate of descent and airspeed all have to be judged by eye.
Incidentally, the legal definition of a model aircraft, is an aircraft which by virtue of its size, is unable to carry passengers. It makes no mention of a pilot!

 

[shemozzle999]

The hobby has changed so much in the last couple of years, Neptune, with the coming on-line of new technology you can now put yourself in the pilots seat via a pair of video goggles, with FPV (First Person View) and two-way telemetry systems feeding back real-time data to the ground from the aircraft, not forgetting the inclusion of gyro systems which give a virtually anti-crash/autopilot feel to the modern systems, almost negating the need of a pilot.

My main item carried in my flight box is a big plastic bag to collect all the broken bits after a crash.

Smudger is right, if you can arrange transport for you and the grandchildren a visit to the BMFA Nationals, at RAF Barkston Heath is well worth the effort and I am sure you would achieve "Super Granddad" status for taking them.

Regarding large model aircraft (over 7kg) they will be unable to fly in the Central London area during the Olympics - the CAA have restricted airspace notices issued during the Games

 

[neptune]

I like the idea of FPV, and it is some thing I dreamed about years ago, but the tech was not then available. I did record some video by mounting a small cheap chinese camera on a plane . I had a stupid thought though . Flying with an FPV camera in goggles must be like flying on the simulator, but with the disadvantage that if you get it wrong, you have to buy or build a new plane .
Actually, I may get to Barkstone Heath by cadging a lift with one of my old club mates.

 

[smudger1956]

I like the idea of FPV, and it is some thing I dreamed about years ago, but the tech was not then available. I did record some video by mounting a small cheap chinese camera on a plane . I had a stupid thought though . Flying with an FPV camera in goggles must be like flying on the simulator, but with the disadvantage that if you get it wrong, you have to buy or build a new plane .
Actually, I may get to Barkstone Heath by cadging a lift with one of my old club mates.

Some amazing FPV footage here - Team BlackSheep - Movies (FPV Videos)

 

[shemozzle999]

I like the idea of FPV, and it is some thing I dreamed about years ago, but the tech was not then available. I did record some video by mounting a small cheap chinese camera on a plane . I had a stupid thought though . Flying with an FPV camera in goggles must be like flying on the simulator, but with the disadvantage that if you get it wrong, you have to buy or build a new plane .
Actually, I may get to Barkstone Heath by cadging a lift with one of my old club mates.

Keep your fingers crossed for good weather, if you go, I had some idyllic years going to Old Warden for their May Fly Day event but this year I had to give it a miss because it was touch and go whether it would be held (dam rain)

Following on from Smudgers' link:

FPV RC Plane crashes 2Kms from launch - YouTube

He achieved 2.5 km range before the model lost connection.