Ready made bike or Bionx kit?

[HarryB]

Sorry long post alert.

In the past I haven't seen the point of buying a kit, there seemed to be so many excellent electric bikes out there so why would you want to build your own. Now I am not so sure. Firstly I have owned four very different electric bikes and all have had there problems. They have been either unreliable, very unreliable (Eco Tornado) or I haven't liked riding them (Kalkhoff Agattu with the 7 speed nexus). Now I find there is nothing on the market that I like - l want (for various reasons):

Hydraulic disc brakes
700c wheel
Ideally Alfine gears
Reasonable freewheel
Light (ish)
2 year guarantee

At the moment I have the Kalkhoff Sahel Pro and Wisper Alpino on a short list. I have test ridden the 906XC but I was surprised at the lack of power so I am not sure it will stay on the short list. I have £1000 cycle to work voucher but unfortunately this is only worth £900 to 50 cycles so the Sahel Pro would cost £2300.

The bike I was most taken with was a Trek Plus with the Bionx kit - I test rode this and thought it was fantastic. It was powerful and I liked the way the pedelec function works - my big criticism is that battery hanging off the rear rack. Really it was too heavy at the back and the battery isn't even large enough but it did get me thinking about fitting the Bionx kit. I have £1000 towards a very good bike and just need to save for the kit and I could end up with a great bike at just under 20 Kg.

So how many people have fitted the Bionx kit? What do we think it will cost in this country - about £1300-1400?? Bionx or Zyro must think it is worth importing so it cannot be any more surely? Also Tex has stated that it doesn't freewheel very well - contrary to my very limited test ride. So anybody else a view of how the freewheel compares to other ebikes - Aldby has ridden many including the Cytronex so how does it compare?

I am hoping that although it will be expensive I will end up with the perfect bike for me but there are still some unknowns like battery life, so it anybody has any experiences I would be keen to hear from you.

 

[flecc]

Member "Nick" (not "Tiberius" or "the mutiny") is the longest term owner of a 350 watt BionX kit in this forum, having owned his for nearly four years after buying from Nycewheels in New York. In his most recent post of 28/2/2010 he says he has had no trouble.

This link shows the six webpages of his 137 posts, many giving advice, information and help on the BionX including fitting it.

Nick's review of it is in the original reviews section accessed from the homepage of this site rather than the new reviews section, but here is the link direct to see it:

BionX Kit Review by Nick

On lithium batteries, during a discussion on them around a year or so ago, a couple of BionX owners said theirs were fine at 18 months and just over two years with no perceived loss of range. Also around that time I discovered that BionX batteries were made in Germany, a fact uncovered when the manufacturer's factory completely burned down causing a problem. However, I can't say for certain that included the lithium battery, but it does indicate a policy of quality purchasing rather than the usual "cheapest source" method.

Hope this is all some help.
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[inno-cycle]

I've just read the bit about a £1000 voucher only being worth £900 with 50cycles.

How does that work?

 

[flecc]

I've just read the bit about a £1000 voucher only being worth £900 with 50cycles.

How does that work?

I understand retailers are allowed to recover their costs with that £100 deduction on the Cycle to Work scheme. Harry will have any further details that I've missed.
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[HarryB]

Yes this is true as cyclescheme.co.uk take commission. I was looking at a bike the other day in a bike shop and the owner said the same - but he did add he was happy to absorb the cost as the scheme brought quite a lot of new business. 50 Cycles won't absorb the cost though- not even on the premium Sahel (and they must be making a fair amount on that anyway).

Thanks for the info Flecc - I had seen some but not all of it before. I was hoping somebody would try and talk me out of it and buy an off the peg bike. I think the biggest problem will be sourcing the Bionx kit as Zirco have to work out prices and then distribute them.

 

[flecc]

I don't think they'll be able to charge too highly if they want to sell them. There's alwsys the option of buying direct from Nycewheels who are always happy to supply direct to the UK, and that could be worth getting a quote for.
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[Cyclezee]

So how many people have fitted the Bionx kit? What do we think it will cost in this country - about £1300-1400?? Bionx or Zirco must think it is worth importing so it cannot be any more surely? Also Tex has stated that it doesn't freewheel very well - contrary to my very limited test ride. So anybody else a view of how the freewheel compares to other ebikes - Aldby has ridden many including the Cytronex so how does it compare?

I am hoping that although it will be expensive I will end up with the perfect bike for me but there are still some unknowns like battery life, so it anybody has any experiences I would be keen to hear from you.

I bought my Bionx 350 kit in the UK last year, second hand but almost new. I have the original receipt from NYCE Wheels and at the time it cost $1,775 + $297 delivery. I believe their was import duty to pay on top of that. Today, NYCE are selling that same kit for $1,890 or approximately £1240. The 250 kit is $200 cheaper. Some other suppliers charge less for delivery.
You would also need a freewheel sprocket, mine came with a 7 speed 14 to 32 tooth, but I have changed it to an 8 speed 11 to 32 tooth.

The other thing you will need is of course is a bike of your choice, just make sure the rear dropouts are vertical.

It certainly doesn't freewheel as easily as a Cytronex, but the performance is in a another league to the Cytronex. There are a host of optional settings to play with in addition to the 4 power settings and regenerative braking.

Bionx claim the Sony battery has a life of 800 discharges which compares favourably with the claimed 500 of other brands. To replace it however will cost between £800 to £900 You can however get a refurbished one for half that price.

To sum up the kit is brilliant, but then so it should be for the money.

There is talk of Bionx increasing production since being taken over by Magna International, the large Canadian car parts manufacturer and it is hoped that this will lead to more competetive pricing in the future, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Incidentally the Bionx factory is in the town of Asbestos, Quebec

J hn

 

[HarryB]

Thank for the details - I'll wait for the UK suppliers to come through and maybe the 250 watt system will work out cheaper, otherwise it is over £1400 from nicewheels. Do you think the two versions are different - both 36V so maybe it is just a re-naming job? The Trek bike seemed very powerful - you are right in a different league to the cytronex and even the wisper 906XC.

 

[aaannndddyyy]

YouTube - What is BionX?

UK supplier
United Kingdom - BionX - Intelligent Mobility Systems

UK supplier
- Bionx

bottom of page
Renaissance Bicycle Company We are often asked how the eZee kit compares to the BionX 36V lithium conversion package. Both are great systems that have similar motor power, are similar weight, have disc brake compatibility, and nearly identical battery capacities. Asides from cost, the main differences are these:

Geared Vs. Direct Drive: The eZee hub is internally geared with a freewheel which means it cannot do regenerative braking, while BionX is direct drive which means there is always some cogging torque to turn the wheel. So there is zero motor drag when riding with the eZee hub, but BionX can do regen and does it well.

Power Control Mode: The eZee system uses a throttle to regulate motor power, while BionX is based on a strain sensor that amplifies the user's pedalling torque. It's somewhat like the difference between a standard and an automatic, with the throttle giving more direct user control over their vehicle while the pedalec feature of BionX does the power regulation automatically.

Openness: BionX is a proprietary system, all the parts are 'intelligent' and communicate with one another so you can only use their batteries and their components. This is fine if their kit as supplied suits exactly what you need.

 

[Old Timer]

Also around that time I discovered that BionX batteries were made in Germany, a fact uncovered when the manufacturer's factory completely burned down causing a problem.

Don`t tell me! it was a battery caught fire

 

[Old Timer]

Just been reading this thread, boy those kits are a lot more expensive than the alien, are they that much better? It`s taken me over 4 months to fine tune my converted bike and acc`s but it is now a joy to ride, can`t really imagine anything being worth that much more

Perhaps you`ll fill me in?

 

[HarryB]

Just been reading this thread, boy those kits are a lot more expensive than the alien, are they that much better? It`s taken me over 4 months to fine tune my converted bike and acc`s but it is now a joy to ride, can`t really imagine anything being worth that much more

Perhaps you`ll fill me in?

I would end up with an electric bike costing £1469 without the discs I want and with the battery pack hanging off the back of the bike (too much weight at the back, which I also don't want). I could have a Trek bionx equipped bike for £1600 with the discs, so not much of a saving either!

I will set up a thread for you to discuss the merits of cheap kits vs expensive kits if you want?

 

[Old Timer]

I would end up with an electric bike costing £1469 without the discs I want and with the battery pack hanging off the back of the bike (too much weight at the back, which I also don't want). I could have a Trek bionx equipped bike for £1600 with the discs, so not much of a saving either!

I will set up a thread for you to discuss the merits of cheap kits vs expensive kits if you want?

To be honest with you Harry, when you compare some bike prices with kits then they do look expensive. I remember thinking when I first saw the alien kit that it was expensive and then I learnt that the battery was taking up more than half the cost.
Going on from that let me just say that the Alien/Evans MTB conversion that I did has turned out( with a few tweeks)to be a superbly balanced bike. the front hub counter balances the rear mounted battery nicely. But then I haven`t ridden a Bionx kitted bike so can`t compare. Having said that although my bike is 20 or so years old bike it didn`t get a lot of use before I converted it and it was quite expensive when I purchased it(having chosen all the running gear)I wish I could find the bill but I remember taking a sharp intake of breath when the final figure was quoted. Perhaps if you had to go and buy my bike again at an equivalent price to todays money then you might be looking at over £2k for my conversion Theres no doubt that the base bike has a lot to do with the finished article (riding wise) so if anyone is considering an alien conversion and has a decent MTB then i know that they will be happy and save themselves a lot of money plus a great UK based back up service overnight if ever needed. At first I kicked against not having front sprung forks like my other E bikes but it has now become my bike of choice to ride because it`s just so positive on the road but then as I said it was a decent bike to start with.

I will set up a thread for you to discuss the merits of cheap kits vs expensive kits if you want?[/QUOTE]

Thats sounds interesting, when you say cheap you are referring to the cheaper Chinese imports, yes?

Dave

 

[HarryB]

Even with the ready made Trek Bionx bikes you do seem to get quite a bit of discount compared to DIY. Of course I would prefer to find the ideal bike off the shelf but there doesn't seem to be anything that I like - or seems robust enough for a 100 mile weekly commute. The Bionx kit is hugely expensive but it does come with one of the best batteries on the market and the way the pedal assist works is worth paying the extra for (in my view). It only recently occurred to me how they did it without any sort of pedal sensor (like the one that gives fitting trouble and works backwards with the Alien). Ingenious but only possible with a rear motor. Very quiet and powerful as well.

I have owned far too many electric bike and I am quite hard on them. But the next one has to be it for a while even if it costs more than I would like. So to re-cap I have spent (since 2001):

Eco Tornado - £750
Torq - £1200
Kalkhoff Agattu - £1350
Cytronex Trek - £1000

It will be a big jump to more like £2300 (ish).

You are right about basing it on a good bike but they have become better value these days. I still have my dad's Dawes Galaxy and I think the receipt is for £750 in 1980 - not sure what that would be in today's money. Still it has dreadful centre pull brakes. Also most of the equipment is obsolete (wheels) and it only has 10 speeds - in its defence it has a comfortable and light frame.

I am spending £1000 on the bike alone so should get something reasonable but not quite into carbon fibre territory (unfortunately).

 

[flecc]

That £4400 total would have bought you a one heck of a powerful quality moped Hal.
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[HarryB]

That £4400 total would have bought you a one heck of a powerful quality moped Hal.
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Ideed and of course I have a motorcycle licence and have owned motorbikes and scooters in the past. I am amazingly still sticking with the electric bike. By the way they have just started to charge for parking in Westminster and I am forever hearing complaints about trying to find parking spaces. On top of that I met a colleague on the way to work on her scooter (about 8 miles away) and by the time she had found a space and parked up I was walking through the front door too - so not much time saved. Ideally I would like to do it un-powered but fear it would be too much day in day out, especially in the winter.

Also electric bikes do seem to hold their do I should add a second column for the price the were sold for - all except the dreadful eco tornado went for between £740 and £800 so it is not all doom and gloom (and the Agattu only cost me a little more than that anyway). Still a total outlay of just over £1700 in 9 years - to put that into perspective it is about £8 a day travelling into London and back.

 

[flecc]

By the way they have just started to charge for parking in Westminster and I am forever hearing complaints about trying to find parking spaces.

That's true, things are getting tougher for bikers too now. I suppose if e-bikes ever get very popular they'd get caught too!

My comment was only tongue-in-cheek though, but it's sobering how much can be spent on e-bikes, batteries and maintenance over the years.
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[HarryB]

.. I don't even think about the batteries and maintenance as I doubt I have saved anything except the gym membership - and now I am told that cycling is not such good excerse for the skeleton anyway - ho hum.

 

[piotrmacheta]

Going back to 50cycles charging £100 for the Cyclescheme voucher. When I used mine I went to in Head for the Hills in Dorking and they were superb and even gave me 10% off as well as using my voucher.
Shame they only sell non-electric bikes!

 

[HarryB]

Going back to 50cycles charging £100 for the Cyclescheme voucher. When I used mine I went to in Head for the Hills in Dorking and they were superb and even gave me 10% off as well as using my voucher.
Shame they only sell non-electric bikes!

Yes as I said most bike shops are prepared to absorb the cost but not 50 cycles. In the end if I want the bike that much I will have to pay the extra....not that keen at the moment as in my opinion the bike is expensive to start with.