Rambletta or Raleigh Motus

[Born to be mild]

Sorry everyone, I'm dithering so much over this.

I'd pretty much decided on a Rambletta - not too expensive, step through, sounds as if it's a good bike with good service support.

Then today I went for an ebike 2hr experience, through a local ebike shop (Bicycles by Design, Coalport Shropshire), just to be sure before buying a bike that I could actually do it and enjoy myself. He strongly recommended getting one with a Bosch motor, which is all he sells. The cheapest (which he didn't have in stock so I couldn't try) is a Raleigh Motus (several versions, this one's around £1,900) step through. It comes with two years free servicing.

Is it likely to be twice as good? I'm so new to this and don't know anyone with an ebike.

 

[Nealh]

The bosh is expensive to repair once the 2 year warranty expires, if you can afford to throw it away ( in the likelihood of failure) then yes it will be fine. It is basically a made in china bike with german knowhow.
The Rambletta uses pretty much generic china electronics so is easiest to repair at a modest cost of approx. £100 should one day it go very wrong, woosh though will have supplies of spares.

The bosh is a torque sensor bike that requires the rider to put in good effort to get the best out of multiplier ts pas system. The woosh is a cadence type pas system, It only requires you to ride as normal for power.

Bosh have dealer/service centres , woosh are mail order but do have field agents if you are unable to do the repair yourself (they will send out the parts to you) if needed.

Is it twice as good, answer is no just a different way the power is delivered. You are paying though for the brand name and the dealer 2 year warranty, like wise woosh also give a warranty of 2 years. Your choice and decision.

There are plenty of happy bosh owners like wise there are plenty of happy hub bike owners.

 

[sjpt]

We have a 2nd hand Motus (2016 model) that has done us very well and continues to do so. I think if it suddenly went missing I'd probably replace it with a non-Bosch bike because of the issues mentioned by Nealh above. Woosh would be where I would look first.

One benefit of our Motus is the hub gears; appreciated by me and very appreciated by my wife.

 

[Nealh]

Oh and my personnel view, if you are after a folding bike and a step thru then the rambletta is pretty much a no brainer for around the 1k mark. Woosh have good pedigree as a UK independent bike brand.

 

[AndyBike]

I think i would prefer Bosch over generic.
The generic likely wont have the same attention to detail or inspection criteria as Bosch.
But tbh I dont think you can compare a mid drive motor to a wheel hub motor. Maybe one wheel hub motor to another of the same type, but mid drive and rear wheel are different set ups.
Rear wheel makes for a heavier back end, where as Bosch mid drive is more balanced.

Bosch have been specializing in small motors and batteries pretty much their entire company history. It isnt cheap, but since when was cheap the best option. Cheap is always cheap, you have to pay for quality.

 

[Nealh]

Anything with CANbus I would give a wide birth and bosh = CANbus.
But that aside for leisure riding a hub is more relaxing then the huff and puff of amid drive.
Mid drive for sport riding, hub for leisure and commuting.

 

[sjpt]

I think i would prefer Bosch over generic.
The generic likely wont have the same attention to detail or inspection criteria as Bosch.
But tbh I dont think you can compare a mid drive motor to a wheel hub motor. Maybe one wheel hub motor to another of the same type, but mid drive and rear wheel are different set ups.
Rear wheel makes for a heavier back end, where as Bosch mid drive is more balanced.

Bosch have been specializing in small motors and batteries pretty much their entire company history. It isnt cheap, but since when was cheap the best option. Cheap is always cheap, you have to pay for quality.

Bosch certainly aren't bad (whatever some will say here). But you are not just paying for quality, you are paying for a brand name, and also later paying the extra costs implied by proprietary lockin.

p.s. and for crank drive the extra cost and bother of lots more transmission maintenance.

p.p.s We have had issues with the badly designed Bosch battery rack on the Motus; on the other hand no issues with the Woosh Mxus XF07 kit on our tandem.

 

[overlander]

I will answer this from an owner of both a cadence hub drive bikes (Rambletta and swytch) and mid drive bike. Simply put they are completely different beasts designed for different needs. The hub drives feel so much more like an electric bike, they are so relaxing to ride and are great fun with minimal effort especial on the flat. If i want to get somewhere quick with minimal effort i take a hub drive.

However the mid drive bike requires work, lots of it at times but its very rewarding if your relatively fit. For hill climbing in my opinion the mid drive wins but you fair build up a sweat. The mid drive bikes excel offroad and are great fun.

So I guess it depends on what you want and your fitness, but for me If i want to keep or improve my fitness I use my mid drive bike or my standard non powered bike.

 

[Born to be mild]

I'm inclining back towards the Rambletta. As a non-cyclist, aiming to get a little bit fitter and minimise car usage for environmental reasons, and an almost 64yr old with some health issues, I don't think there's sufficient justification for spending an extra £1k.

 

[AndyBike]

(whatever some will say here)

Well thats it exactly, its the heavy bias and clearly blind hate, clearly ignoring everything just to be spiteful.
The big players are choosing Bosch(Yes its spelled BOSCH, not 'bosh') and they're choosing it because its in the top 3, in fact it's probably the market leader currently.
Chap I bought my bike from is only stocking bikes with Bosch motors, and he's been in the cycling industry for over 20 years as a rep for the likes of windwave(now madison) and also Ibis bikes.

Riese & Muller - Bosch
Tern - Bosch
The vast majority of mountain bike makers Scott,Cube,Focus,Orbea,Haibike - All choosing Bosch.

Or how about the number of 'I have a problem threads' on here. Yes there are a small number concerning Bosch, Shimano, but the vast majority are concerning cheap generic ebikes with hub motors.

 

[Nealh]

Bafang are bigger then bosh and will have out sold them ten fold.

The guys who have issues with hubs are because ; 1. they use the cheap DD drive motors with cheap £30 china controllers & 2. they don't know really what they are doing.
I have always used very good decent geared hubs Bafang, Mxus & Aikema coupled with the very good KT control system, they are the go to combos for the bike builder and we keep saying so. Yet to save 50 or 60 quid folks keep buying the really crap cheap stuff and have issues time after time.

 

[AndyBike]

Bafang sales revenue 2020 - $2.05billion
Bosch sales revenue 2020 - 71.5 billion Euros

. they use the cheap DD drive motors with cheap £30 china controllers & 2. they don't know really what they are doing.

Sorry who doesnt know what they are doing ? the customer expecting a product to work.

You're certainly making the case for Bosch systems over fly by night mass produced hub motor systems lol.

A n y w a y ... I would put the case for a mid drive offering a better balanced bike, over a rear heavy. I mean, who likes a fat rear end

 

[Ocsid]

They are so different technologies it is just like comparing apples with onions, they have little more in common than are much the same shape.

That being the case if you want to make a considered choice you need to try both, at least both the base technologies and the control concepts.

 

[DiggyGun]

I’ve had two bikes with the Bosch motors. My last one was the Raleigh Motus GT and it was an excellent bike, only changed it as I wanted something with a bit more off reading capability. My wife has a Wisper 705, which is a rear hub drive. Again, a very good bike, but I do prefer the Bosch motor.

 

[Woosh]

I'm inclining back towards the Rambletta. As a non-cyclist, aiming to get a little bit fitter and minimise car usage for environmental reasons, and an almost 64yr old with some health issues, I don't think there's sufficient justification for spending an extra £1k.

As Oscid said,

They are so different technologies it is just like comparing apples with onions

The Rambletta has cadence sensor, rear wheel hub motor, a throttle, is smaller in size and can be folded.
The Motus has torque sensor, middle motor, no throttle and is bigger.

If you are a smaller rider and not a strong pedaller, then the Rambletta is more suitable.
The difference is very noticeable when you ride up a steep hill.
With a torque sensor (the Motus), the harder you pedal, the more power you get from the motor. You also need to select the right gear.
With a cadence sensor (the Rambletta), you can pedal as much or as little as you like or use the throttle, you don't need to change gear.
The Rambletta has an 8-speed revoshift gear shifter, easier for those with arthritis in their wrist:

Throttle with on/off switch:

Better than most folding bikes, the Rambletta has an 8-speed cassette instead of 7-speed or 6-speed freewheel.
That means that the smallest cog (on gear 8) has 11 teeth instead of 13 teeth, lowering the cadence by 20%, making cruising much more relaxed.

Rambletta cassette:

 

[Nealh]

Or how about the number of 'I have a problem threads' on here.

Bafang sales revenue 2020 - $2.05billion
Bosch sales revenue 2020 - 71.5 billion Euros

That figure is distorted as the bosh one is the company as a whole their home appliance, power tools and automotive revenue will be the major part of the sales and the bike division will be very tiny.

 

[cyclebuddy]

That figure is distorted as the bosh one is the company as a whole their home appliance revenue will be the major part of the sales and the bike division will be tiny.

And Bosch home appliances aren't made in Germany either.

 

[guerney]

Bafang sales revenue 2020 - $2.05billion
Bosch sales revenue 2020 - 71.5 billion Euros



Sorry who doesnt know what they are doing ? the customer expecting a product to work.

You're certainly making the case for Bosch systems over fly by night mass produced hub motor systems lol.

A n y w a y ... I would put the case for a mid drive offering a better balanced bike, over a rear heavy. I mean, who likes a fat rear end

Any revenue quoted by Bosch's ebike division will include servicing, which Bafang do comparatively little of. It's highly unlikely that ebikes with Bosch powertrains outnumber Bafang motors. I'd never buy a Bosch ebike, I'd never buy an iPhone either - both are b*stard companies that actively prevent buyers of their products from repairing it themselves.

 

[Nealh]

Not forgetting bosh motors are manufactured in China/far east.

 

[RHB123]

The bosh is expensive to repair once the 2 year warranty expires, if you can afford to throw it away ( in the likelihood of failure) then yes it will be fine. It is basically a made in china bike with german knowhow.
The Rambletta uses pretty much generic china electronics so is easiest to repair at a modest cost of approx. £100 should one day it go very wrong, woosh though will have supplies of spares.

The bosh is a torque sensor bike that requires the rider to put in good effort to get the best out of multiplier ts pas system. The woosh is a cadence type pas system, It only requires you to ride as normal for power.

Bosh have dealer/service centres , woosh are mail order but do have field agents if you are unable to do the repair yourself (they will send out the parts to you) if needed.

Is it twice as good, answer is no just a different way the power is delivered. You are paying though for the brand name and the dealer 2 year warranty, like wise woosh also give a warranty of 2 years. Your choice and decision.

There are plenty of happy bosh owners like wise there are plenty of happy hub bike owners.

I fully understand this thread now Neal, but can you tell me where the Rambletta comes in in this. Does that not have a Bosh Sensor, and if not what does it have. And one further question please, does it have a twist throttle, that when on full power you can peddle a little, but still get top speed? I too am looking at the Raleigh, as being realistic at 70 I'm only really going to use the bike for short runs, maybe 10-20 miles in high summer but mostly around the shops etc. I also think the Raleigh is a better looking bike and looks lighter, sleeker, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say?

 

[Nealh]

Ramletta from Woosh bikes uses a cadence sensor with five PAS levels , also has a fully functioning throttle up to 15.5mph. The cadence sensor is a simple wired hall sensor with a magnetic disc or may be an all in one PAS unit , spares wise Woosh will keep them for many many years.