raleigh dover power ratio ?

[funkylyn]

Can anyone advise me on the power ratio, eco, medium,high, of the raleigh dover in relation to the kalkoff agattu ?
I have trawled many sites but not seen any details given.....am I right to presume its the same assist ratios as the agattu ?
Thanks

 

[lectureral]

I am pretty sure that they are the same - I have a Raleigh Dover and it seems to be pretty much the same as the equivalent Kalkhoff and certainly so in respect of the core components (Battery, motor and controller)

 

[Biged]

Will check tomorrow, we own both so will check the paperwork, wont have time today off out in a min.

 

[flecc]

The motor assist factor of the Agattu in Eco is always 0.5 ratio, the Normal mode is 1, but the High mode has been 1.3 originally from 2007, then went to 1.5 and is now said to be 2 by 50cycles.

I'm practically certain it will be the same 2 times for the current Raleigh Dover in High mode, but there's a degree of supplier option, so to be sure, email Lloyd Clarkson of Raleigh e-bikes:

lloyd@raleighebike.co.uk
.

 

[funkylyn]

Thanks everyone.
Flecc.....do you know why they reduced it from 3 to 2 ?
Is it not possible to ask for a higher ratio or is this now only available on one of the dearer pro connect ?
I shall certainly ask Lloyd for clarification and also confirmation of when the larger 18Ah battery will be available for the dover, as I am presuming this will give me further range ?

 

[flecc]

No, that's a misunderstanding. The 1.3 is not 3 to 1, it's the 1.3 times motor assist and that's been increased to 2 times, not reduced. These figures are too often badly presented which is why I prefer only to give the motor assist ratio, the human part always 1 so it's unnecessary to repeat it.

In other words, for the input of a given amount of human power, called 1, the motor assistance power is as follows now:

Eco = 0.5, i.e. half the human input.

Normal = 1.0, i.e. equalling the human input.

High = 2.0, i.e. twice the human input.

Previously the High mode has been 1.3 times human input, then 1.5 times human input but now at 2 times.

I understand that Raleigh can also have the new batteries made by BMZ in Germany. I don't know anything about their performance as they are too new for there to be any experience.
.

 

[funkylyn]

Hi Flecc......sorry, I thought I had seen one of the more expensive kalkoff with a 1:.5, 1:1.5and 1:3times ratio, but on looking again i cant find it so must be imagining things Or as you say, just confused, I knew the agattu had never been higher than it is now.
If I went for the panasonic system I would of course have to have the 18A battery but hate the idea of being a guinea pig, but then I suppose it is covered by the 2 year guarantee so should be safe enough.
There seems to be some confusion as to which is the higher spec.....agattu or dover....any views
Cant wait to try them again

 

[flecc]

They are the same bike, the Dover isn't a deluxe version. If it was it would have the Alfine 8 speed hub gear, but it hasn't, both bikes have exactly the same Nexus hub gear and their other specifications are the same.

It's just the way they are sold. To keep the entire range of Kalkhoff models within stockable bounds, 50cycles have chosen only to bring in the step-through Agattu this year. Being sold direct the price is lower.

Raleigh bring in both step-through and crossbar versions but only sell through dealers. They have to have their margin so the prices are higher. It can be worth that to customers who want the reassurance of a local dealer, though these are very reliable bikes.
.

 

[funkylyn]

Thanks Flecc.....I dont suppose its possible to specify alfine gears on the dover .....are they a lot lot better than the nexus ?

 

[flecc]

I doubt you can change the specification, they use pre-booked production schedules and batches pre-ordered by importers as much as a year in advance. The 8 speed hubs are fundamentally the same, but the controls are better on the Alfine. They both do the same job though and are a considerable improvement on the old 7 speed Nexus.

P.S. I've just been looking at the manufacturer's website and it appears they've dropped using the Alfine system. It was used for as while on several models, but it seems they feel it not worth bothering with any more as an option.
.

 

[funkylyn]

Thanks Flecc, thats interesting.....wonder if its down to cost only......

 

[flecc]

I doubt it, since the deluxe version of the Agattu is the Tasman model at a higher price. That has such expensive luxuries as Magura hydraulic brakes but it's lost the Alfine gears it used to have. Seems Derby Cycles feel the Alfine doesn't add sufficient.
.

 

[Biged]

''They are the same bike, the Dover isn't a deluxe version. If it was it would have the Alfine 8 speed hub gear, but it hasn't, both bikes have exactly the same Nexus hub gear and their other specifications are the same''

Not quite true, I have seen a review where the Raleigh versions of the bikes are classed as the deluxe versions in Germany and as such attract a higher price.
The Alfine 8 and the Nexus 8 now have the same internals http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/tech_support/tech_tips.download.-Par50lparsys-0016-downloadFile.html/09) Differences Between Hubs.pdf
The Alfine 11 is now the upgrade
The forks are supposed to be Raleigh units (though i can't see any difference)
The saddle is certainly superior, with quick release clamp.
The crank arms are a better finish
The Handle bar stem is a very nice brushed aluminium.
The handle bars are aluminium, swept back units
The lights were superior, now the same on the 'new' Agattu
The tyres are Schwalbe, Continental on the Agattu. (same crappy Woods/Dunlop tubes though)
The paint job on the Agattu is not in the same street as the Dover
The electronics are supposed to be 'tweaked' by Raleigh for better performance (though i don't see how)
The manual and paperwork are better and come in a 'nice' plastic folder
You have the whole Raleigh network behind you, (50cycles are the sole importers of the Agattu)
The assistance ratios were as stated, the higher assistance of 2 is with the 18ah battery, this is not a Panasonic unit and i suppose is not yet tested, though its covered by the same 2 year warranty so should be no problem.
I suppose one thing to consider is that the 18ah battery is £121.60 more the 10ah when it comes to replacement
One last thing, 50cycles price is set, no haggling. I have seen the Dover at cycle shops on the internet for £1500.

Make your own mind up if you think they are the same bike.

I used Lexus and Toyota as an example, which was probably wrong it should have been Skoda/Seat against VW, almost the same cars just styling. but check out the VW prices

 

[flecc]

I know the support aspects are better as I've acknowledged already, but the basic bike is the same thing. Also as I said above, the components vary very slightly, but as you've observed they tend to follow each other according to supplies etc., such as both now losing the Alfine gear hub they used to have for a while. That's true of the tyres too, the makes/types vary as do the rims. While the small style variations might be a nice touch for some, they make no difference to what the bike does.

The Raleigh is called deluxe here in the UK as well, but it's just a name. There is a true deluxe version of these Agattu/Dover models, it's called the Tasman and sold only under their main Kalkhoff name. That does have the fundamental components improved as I noted above, such things as Magura hydraulic brakes, but 50cycles have chosen not to bring them in this year. Some members have the Tasman models.

The 18 Ah battery is made by BMZ in Germany for Derby Cycles so presumably can be supplied for any of the Panasonic motored brand names they market under.

True on the haggling, I've seen the Dover even lower than that £1500. That's the benefit of multiple outlets, fixed prices are not allowed.
.

 

[Biged]

Got mine much lower than £1500

 

[flecc]

Well done Ed!

There's quite a few places selling online at the full price, but that doesn't seem a good option to me, paying that and not getting local dealer support.

I noticed there's the Raleigh Type 41 also which does have the Tasman spec, Magura hydraulics etc, but dearer of course £2099.99 online. Didn't know they'd introduced that.
.

 

[mayor]

2 power ratio

is the high mode power ratio 2 only whith the 18 amp package?
Flecc, does your panasonic page reflect this upgrade?
Meir

 

[flecc]

is the high mode power ratio 2 only whith the 18 amp package?
Flecc, does your panasonic page reflect this upgrade?
Meir

No, I've given up quoting the actual amounts since they've changed so often. I cannot say what it is for any particular bike since bike manufacturers can specify some specification aspects. Therefore I've just entered this:

Year by year Panasonic having been changing these multiples so a definitive figure can't be given.
.

 

[carpetbagger]

if the new bikes have the increased power then surely the ranges will have decreased from the original or have they tweaked them to give the same performance mileage wise ?

 

[NRG]

Just to confuse matters my 2010 Proconnect S has a top assist quoted as 1:7, no wonder Flecc gave up.....