Quiet front hub motor options ?

[eHomer]

I'm getting the urge to tinker with one of my electric bikes again....

My DIY "utility" runaround bike is a German Alubike with the handy combination of a deep step through frame and full suspension. Despite it's looks, it's surprisingly lightweight and easy to pedal with it's Sram 7 speed hub gear.

I've already upgraded the original DIY kit with a BMS S06S sine wave controller, a great improvement.

The front wheel 250w motor is getting noisier though, ( or maybe it seems to be, compared with my Q100 motor in my Hase trike and Dahon folder, which is much smaller and quieter.)

So once again, I'm thinking of replacing the front wheel motor.

The Lithium Iron battery is a metal cased 36v 10ah pack, (two actually), so I was thinking a 350w motor would suit nicely with the S06S controller.

I believe I need to stick with 201rpm for the 700C rim, to get about 18mph max, assisted ?

I know the 328rpm version would be way overgeared with me pedalling my giblets off, but what about the 250rpm ? I live in gloriously flat Norfolk, but I am a heavy fat bloke, just under 200kg.

Also, I'm still uncertain of the differences between the Q100, Q100H, and Q100S, and which is the best for my needs ?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Q100 is the cooking version - 201 rpm or 328 rpm (15 or 25 mph)
Q100H can take more amps. It should be OK at 18A to 20A. It also comes in 260rpm, so you a nice combination of power, torque and speed.
The Q100C takes a cassette for better gearing options. The motor core is physically smaller, so must have less power potential than the Q100, but some guys on ES run them with 48v and 20A. Maybe it has strong windings like the Q100H.

Motors like the Bafang SWX are a little noisy when your turn up the current because the core rotates much more slowly than a Q100, so, at low speed, you can feel the controller pulses hitting the motor like a hammer. A sine-wave controller improves the noise because instead of hammer blows, it gives more of a shove.

Big motors run at half power are quieter than small motors at full power. If you want a bigger motor, get an appropriate sized controller. Don't try and run a 500w BPM on a S06S, especially a wind above (in speed) code 15. A code 10 will just draw the maximum 15A all the time until the controller melts.A S12S would be much better for it.

 

[eHomer]

Thanks Dave.

From what you've said, I think I'll aim for a Q100H running at 260rpm.

...and I just noticed a mistake in my original post, I weigh just under 100kg, not 200kg. I can't get used to this damn metric system still !

 

[flecc]

...and I just noticed a mistake in my original post, I weigh just under 100kg, not 200kg. I can't get used to this damn metric system still !

I thought 31 stones was a bit much, but didn't like to comment!
.

 

[eHomer]

I guess it must have bemused quite a few other readers too !

Now I feel like half the man I was.

 

[eHomer]

I'm still wavering over this.

I'm now thinking about a 350watt 36v BBS01 centre drive.

When they first came out I read all the forum positives and negatives about them, and was quite attracted to the neat installation and the ability to spread the torque over the bike's existing gearing.

I could appreciate the downsides as well, the potentially "clunking" when changing gear under load etc..

They've been around for a while now though, and seem to have had reasonable reliability.

If I fitted the 350w 36 volt version to my Alubike, it has the Sram7 internal gear hub, which would allow me to change down while stopped, so that I could easily use the gears sympathetically. I also thought about a handlebar push button to open the brake circuit to instantly release power when changing on the move. I'm thinking that the BBS01 at 350w won't be too much of a strain on the hub gears, like the 750w BBS02, and also being kind to my 10ah batteries.

There's a lot of Youtube videos around now that show them as being pretty quiet.

I was thinking about the BMSbattery one for just under £300 delivered, as long as I don't get knobbled with Customs again.

http://www.bmsbattery.com/central-motor/629-48v350w-bbs01-bafang-central-motor.html

I was wondering about the variations though.

They do the BBS01 350watt in 36 volt and 48 volt, I'd prefer to buy the 48v to keep my options open, but intend to use it with my 36v 10ah lithium iron packs, would that be a no no ?

Also they list it with C961 or C963 controllers which would you chose ?

 

[trex]

woosh will have BBS01 in 36V 25A 500W and 48V 18A 500W with matching batteries in about 5 weeks for not much more than the 350W kit.

 

[eHomer]

I must admit, I was wondering about UK suppliers instead.

If the Revenue man sticks his oar in, I'd face another £60 or so by buying from China, making it dearer than the safer UK option.

Custom-Ebikes are showing the 350w BBS01 for £339.99 delivered, £10 cheaper than Woosh. How do the 2 suppliers compare ?

I'm nervous of going higher than 350w because of my hub gears and my 10ah battery. Though I admit, I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too, by keeping as many options open as possible, in case I move it to another bike.

I was wondering mainly about what the downsides would be of going to 48 volts ? Is the LVC adjustable so that I can use my 36v battery now, and is there any difference in the crank speed through different windings or gears between the 48 and 36 ?

 

[eHomer]

I also wondered about the ground clearance of the BBS01 under my Alubike's bottom bracket. The downtube is almost horizontal for a few inches, so the motor body would need to be revolved downwards.

I found this photo on Google images though, showing a posh German bike with the motor at the same angle, and what looks like 26" wheels instead of my larger 700c. So maybe the ground clearance would be ok ?

 

[jackhandy]

If you want 12 months' warranty,it might be as well to check that Woosh will honour the warranty on a kit, as they have stipulated theirs must be installed by an approved fitter.
Cyclezee being my closest, it would add the thick end of £200 when couriers are taken into consideration.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

To run a 48v at 36v, you'd have to reprogram the controller's LVC to 31V. Have a read of this thread. At the moment, the very last post asks the question about resetting the LVC, so look for the answers to confirm that it can be done. I'm not sure about the crank speed, but I'm pretty sure that there's a difference.

 

[eHomer]

Thanks Dave, any difference in the crank speed would make it a show stopper for me.
Did you mean to post a link to another thread ?

Jackhandy, aren't Cyclezee based abroad ?

It's not the couriers that bump it up for me, it's the Customs and VAT that I always seem to get a hit from, bringing it up from about £280 to £340, so making a very small difference with the UK based ones.

 

[flecc]

Jackhandy, aren't Cyclezee based abroad ?

Cyclezee are at Milton Keynes:

Cyclezee Ltd.
3 Guest Gardens
New Bradwell
Milton Keynes
Buckinghamshire MK13 0AF
.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Did you mean to post a link to another thread ?

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=58780&start=425

 

[eHomer]

If you want 12 months' warranty,it might be as well to check that Woosh will honour the warranty on a kit, as they have stipulated theirs must be installed by an approved fitter.
Cyclezee being my closest, it would add the thick end of £200 when couriers are taken into consideration.

I didn't realise they were in the UK Jack.

Below £300 with no danger of Customs and VAT would be great, but I've looked ta the Cyclezee website and I can't find the BBS01 motors on there ?

 

[eHomer]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=58780&start=425

Thanks Dave, I'll keep an eye on it.

 

[jackhandy]

I've looked ta the Cyclezee website and I can't find the BBS01 motors on there ?

We've mixed our metafers

Cyclezee used to sell the bbs kits, but no longer _ I meant that Cyclezee is the closest approved fitter of Woosh's kits, entailing couriering the bike to & from Milton Keynes to have the kit fitted, in addition to cost of fitting.

 

[eHomer]

Ah...

I can't conceive of any situation that would get me to pay someone to assemble a bike for me !

Sourcing the components and building/modifying the bike gives me equal satisfaction to riding it, as I suspect is the case with most forum posters on here !

 

[Cyclezee]

Just to clarify, we no longer stock the BBS01 kit, there is no point in us trying to compete with Woosh for these kits.

As JH said we are approved installer for Woosh supplied kits, but if anyone wants to diy a BBS01 it is best to buy from them.