I feel rather strongly that the cost of a new battery and its expected life ought to be made clear in 50cycles adverts. Few people can really be aware (or understand) how this item will cost them more than £300 after just a few years at the most. There seems to exist a real conspiracy of silence making it very difficult for prospective purchasers to find out what the cost is, and that it is one that will occur relatively frequently. It seems to me that this is a very unsatisfactory state of affairs. Neither 50 cycles nor any other ebike sites that I've noticed allow one to find the cost of replacement batteries anywhere. It almost seems a deliberate attempt to hide an unpleasant truth.
Prospective purchasers
- Thread starter tgame
- Start date
Sorry Tony, but that's just not the case. As examples, here's 50cycles battery page on their site, complete with prices:
Kalkhoff & eZee batteries and chargers
And here's Powacycle's, and if you look at the left menu list, you'll see they've put spare batteries ahead of the bikes, so far from hidden. Not only are the battery prices shown, they even put the carriage cost as well:
Powacycle batteries
There are other examples as well of course. In addition, magazines like A to B publish the replacement battery costs with their road tests of all bikes, plus the running costs including the price of replacements. Even the sophisticated motor industry doesn't go that far with their consumables, leaving one in the dark about batteries and tyre costs when buying a car.
I agree that the life isn't given, but with huge variations in owners local road conditions and usage frequency, it's impossible to say with any accuracy. That's especailly true with new battery types where no-one has owned them long enough to know for certain. Reading up a subject is the best way to get some idea, and that's what magazines and sites like this are for, and those selling e-bikes do give answers when asked about this.
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I stand corrected, Flecc and am rather ashamed that I didn't find that page when I was looking - and I did look quite carefully. I sometimes wonder at myself - never mind what my wife tells me she wonders about me!!
My impression was - and to tell the truth still is - that battery information on most ebike sites is a sort of dirty secret rather hidden away. The reason that I feel about this is that I know a couple of people, not locally, one an elderly lady, who bought ebikes after reading the blurb so often published about the charging costs being almost nil - and later discovered that these charges were not at all the point. The lady in question cannot afford a new battery and is having to save for it over quite a long period during which time she has not the use of her bike. I don't wish to mention names, but when she was sold her bike the battery stuff was not pointed out to her. Which really is not good enough. I consider myself reasonably able in such matters (although my first post rather contradicts this,) but I had not fully understood the cost of the Panasonic battery when I bought my Agattu, believing it to be a hundred pounds or so, although where I got this idea from I now have no idea. But again I feel that I ought to have had it made clear to me in honest selling practise.
If this was a question of a small and insignificant sum then it would not matter nearly so much, but it is in fact a monstrous price to many folk, especially the retired to whom an ebike is often such a boon, and an enormous disadvantage to the ebike scenario, that ought to be widely published in my opinion.
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I agree that ideally it would be made a focal point when selling e-bikes Tony, but as we both know, sales of any product rarely have any mention of the downside.
Here's some examples of shockers:
Ink Jet printers, dirt cheap, but home made photo prints costing more than the genuine articles, and worse still, having limited life, inks rubbing off when photos handled with sweaty hands and prints fading badly when exposed to daylight.
Cameras and film in the days of film. The film was cheap enough, but once 36 prints were made the costs rocketed, and only for tiddly enprints too. Get all 36 shots enlarged a bit and you'd need a second mortgage.
Vacuum cleaners in the Hoover dominant days, bag costs multiplying the cleaner cost over time until James Dyson stopped all that.
Of course there's loads of other examples, but you can see that it's always best to do the homework with any purchase that's going to use consumables.
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Here's some examples of shockers:
Ink Jet printers, dirt cheap, but home made photo prints costing more than the genuine articles, and worse still, having limited life, inks rubbing off when photos handled with sweaty hands and prints fading badly when exposed to daylight.
Cameras and film in the days of film. The film was cheap enough, but once 36 prints were made the costs rocketed, and only for tiddly enprints too. Get all 36 shots enlarged a bit and you'd need a second mortgage.
Vacuum cleaners in the Hoover dominant days, bag costs multiplying the cleaner cost over time until James Dyson stopped all that.
Of course there's loads of other examples, but you can see that it's always best to do the homework with any purchase that's going to use consumables.
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Quite so, Flecc, and regrettably so in my view. I rather believe that honest salemanship, while it may inhibit immediate sales, brings future rewards as people feel they can trust the process. But I may be impractical and naive in such a belief. The examples that you mention do tend to involve sums which are not quite so devastatingly large. £300 is to many folk a really really hefty amount.
Quite off the subject but I can't resist mentioning it. I bought a Canon printer really very cheaply for the sophisticated thing that it undoubtedly is - and have found that refilling the cartridges is quite a trivial matter and very cheap and successful. One wins some and loses some, and always will I suppose. I am really looking forward to the combination of my Agattu and camera and printer when the weather bucks up. Lots of luvly photos and cheapy prints!!
S
stokepa31
Guest
I would add that the annual service costs + road tax + depreciation + Fuel + insurance + tyres and repairs mean that I can buy a ton of batteries every year if I get rid of the car.
I do appreciate thats not possible for some but you will still save on fuel and tyre wear etc and probably cover your £300 every 2 years
Regards
Paul
I do appreciate thats not possible for some but you will still save on fuel and tyre wear etc and probably cover your £300 every 2 years
Regards
Paul
Very true,Flecc. Luckily I've always preferred matt papers, and one can sometimes pick up bargains keeping one's eyes opened. 7dayshop do a good one quite reasonably priced. Longer ago than I care to think I used to be quite a keen carbro man and sometimes long for the glorious papers that seemed to be available then and no longer are. But I don't suppose they would be any use for inkjets in any case. Mmmm! I wonder if one could sort out any sort of bromoil process from an inkjet print?
Not in full colour of course - how one forgets that everything was once black and white!
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Just so, Paul. Running a car certainly keeps many of us poor. But of course an ebike can never absolutely replace a car. There are also plenty of people who cannot afford to run a car and for such people an electric bicycle would be an enormous boon - if only they could afford the batteries. I may be illlogical but I cannot help feeling that if only a real need could be perceived or created, modern technology would set to and produce what is needed at a price that can generally be afforded.I would add that the annual service costs + road tax + depreciation + Fuel + insurance + tyres and repairs mean that I can buy a ton of batteries every year if I get rid of the car.
I do appreciate thats not possible for some but you will still save on fuel and tyre wear etc and probably cover your £300 every 2 years
Regards
Paul
Wisper list the cost of replacement batteries in their price list (£299 for the 36v 14a Lithium Polymer used on the 905SE).
However, the price list is only available on request - its not available on their web site.
On the subject of what isn't on the Wisper web site, theres no information about their current range of bikes; it only gives details of the 705e and the 905e, which are old models.
Details of the latest bikes (905Eco, 905SE, 705Eco and 705SE) are available on request, but its a mystery why the details aren't on their web site (perhaps they don't really want to sell any)
However, the price list is only available on request - its not available on their web site.
On the subject of what isn't on the Wisper web site, theres no information about their current range of bikes; it only gives details of the 705e and the 905e, which are old models.
Details of the latest bikes (905Eco, 905SE, 705Eco and 705SE) are available on request, but its a mystery why the details aren't on their web site (perhaps they don't really want to sell any
)
Believe it or not, they probably don't want to attract users of other bikes to buy these batteries for their content.
It's an extraordinarily good price for the latest generation high capacity 37 volt 14 Ah battery, and due to them fixing that at a future forecast price drop level as David has said.
If you don't believe it's value and the tiny margin involved, compare to the latest 26 volt 10 Ah Panasonic unit battery at £305, or the equally high quality BionX 37 volt 10 Ah one at £450.
Wisper £0.57 per watt hour
Panasonic £1.17 per watt hour
BionX £1.22 per watt hour
Remarkable value, and Wisper must be supplying at not far above arrival cost in the UK.
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Quite so, Flecc, and regrettably so in my view. I rather believe that honest salemanship, while it may inhibit immediate sales, brings future rewards as people feel they can trust the process. But I may be impractical and naive in such a belief. The examples that you mention do tend to involve sums which are not quite so devastatingly large. £300 is to many folk a really really hefty amount.
Quite off the subject but I can't resist mentioning it. I bought a Canon printer really very cheaply for the sophisticated thing that it undoubtedly is - and have found that refilling the cartridges is quite a trivial matter and very cheap and successful. One wins some and loses some, and always will I suppose. I am really looking forward to the combination of my Agattu and camera and printer when the weather bucks up. Lots of luvly photos and cheapy prints!!
Hi Tony! Yes, I agree with you on costs etc.. After all, £300 will buy you a pretty good conventional bike, with lots of models to choose from!! As far as I can see, it's the only serious downside to e-bike ownership. However, it is obvious that much activity is taking place to improve battery range, and together with a drastic price reduction, e-bike sales will take off. But I seriously doubt if pricing policies will change in the short term - if ever! The possible outcome of all this of course, is that large volume turnover will not take place, which will eventually threaten viability and possibly the very existence of a rapidly improving and much needed product. What say you ??
Regards,
StrangeFish
Well I should say at once that I know nothing of commerce or finance and my gut feelings are just that - hunches.Hi Tony! Yes, I agree with you on costs etc.. After all, £300 will buy you a pretty good conventional bike, with lots of models to choose from!! As far as I can see, it's the only serious downside to e-bike ownership. However, it is obvious that much activity is taking place to improve battery range, and together with a drastic price reduction, e-bike sales will take off. But I seriously doubt if pricing policies will change in the short term - if ever! The possible outcome of all this of course, is that large volume turnover will not take place, which will eventually threaten viability and possibly the very existence of a rapidly improving and much needed product. What say you ??
Regards,
StrangeFish
We HAVE to stop the carbon cycle. That is going to involve cutting down on car usage among much else. We don't have any options here - this has got to be done. One way to alleviate the pain of this greatly would be to popularise and promote ebikes.
Sensible government, preferably world, but usefully local, would in my view REALLY sort out incentives and promotions and advertising and so forth to facilitate this. Current battery prices are (in my view but others have demurred) a monstrous hindrance to all this.
Never mind the sacred precepts of capitalism, action needs taking, whether subsidisation, government manufacture, whatever.
It won't work I shall be told - IT HAS TO BE MADE to work.
People should read the current AtoB with details of what the Dutch have done to promote cycling. We must do it.
We must change our ways or we shall be back in the trees where there won't be much carbon to muck about with!
Anyway - that's my tale and I'm sticking to it.
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