Pro Connect – Suspension forks and Tubus Swing front carrier with panniers

[JamesC]

Two lovely days of cycling in Rutland on Thursday and Friday last week.

This picture was taken beside the River Welland Viaduct, coming out of Harringworth towards Uppingham.

My Pro Connect will be 2 years old in June and it has had a number of changes along the way. Now retired, I enjoy touring with the bike, and have steadily been increasing the range of a day’s cycling.

The 8 speed Nexus SG-8R36 hub is fitted with a 19 tooth chain sprocket, which I find to be an excellent compromise between the original, low geared, 23 tooth sprocket and the highest available gearing afforded by a 16 tooth sprocket.

With this set up, coupled with highest level of assistance on constantly (motor contributes up to a maximum of 57% of the workload), I work on 20 miles per battery as a safe capacity guide, regardless of the severity of hills in the area.

Now that spring has arrived and the weather is warmer, typically, the 2 original batteries (approaching 2 years old) will enter the final stage of capacity with a flashing light on the handlebars at 19/20 miles, whilst a new battery purchased just 2 weeks ago, reaches this phase at 22/23 miles.

Using the batteries down to completely empty (approx 3 miles of flashing prior to cutout) is not recommended except when conditioning, and there is a noticeable reduction in assistance from the motor when the final phase of capacity is reached.

Previously riding with 1 additional battery in the Creek2Peak rack bag (smaller 16 litre size for the Pro Connect), I have been experimenting with carrying 2 on the front of the bike.

Pro Connect S suspension fork

The standard 2008 model of Pro Connect is fitted with very solid, unsprung, front forks which I found to be hard on the shoulders.

Raising the handlebars on the original forks with the Satori HeadsUp stem extender (shown below) helped considerably, but I finally decided to swap the forks to the Pro Connect S suspension forks at the end of last year.

Retaining the full length of the uncut steerer tube on the S forks gave me a similar height for the handlebars, coupled with the resilience of the suspension.

There has been debate in the forum previously relating to the stiffness of the S suspension forks, and in comparison to softer mountain bike forks, this is indeed true. But in comparison to solid forks, there is an immediate reduction in wear and tear on the shoulders for riding through potholes, cobbles and cycle tracks.

They would not be a good choice for significant offroad use.

Weight and Size of Additional Batteries

The Panasonic battery weighs 2.4 kg and, at 26 volt / 10 Ah, it is relatively compact compared with many of the higher rated batteries.

Nonetheless, carrying the weight of additional batteries on an unsprung bike is a noticeable shock through the frame when hitting a pothole etc.

With the standard battery position being at the rear of the bike, loading further batteries onto the rear carrier produces an unforgiving load which might be better distributed.


Tubus “Swing” Suspension Fork Carrier / Ortlieb Front Roller Classic bags

Unlike many models of low rider front carriers, the Tubus Swing mounts to the upper, sprung, part of the forks. Effectively this means that the load being carried is cushioned by the suspension.

The carrier mounts to the crown of the fork, and has a stay running down from the top of the steerer tube to the front edge of the carrier.

It can only be fitted to the Ahead type of stem as used on the Pro Connect, and is not suitable for the quill type of stem as used on Agattus and Tasmans.

The mounting plate along the backside of the crown of the fork would normally conflict with rim brakes mounted on the back of the fork (as on the Pro Connect), but I had opted to fit Magura HS11 hydraulic rim brakes. With careful attention to the Magura Brake Evo mounting plate, sufficient clearance can be achieved.

The carrier is exceptionally light in weight and handles the Ortlieb Front Roller Classic and similar bags.

The Panasonic batteries lie flat in the bottom of the Front Roller Classic bags, leaving substantial space above the battery for clothing etc. Designed for a payload of 15 kg, 2x batteries takes approximately half the payload of the Swing Carrier.


Riding Performance

This set up would not be appropriate for severe changes in direction that you might experience on narrow, windy paths.

On the open road and cycle tracks that are relatively straight, it is easy to get used to the additional inertia in the steering.

Recognising that the Pro Connect S forks are relatively stiff, the extra weight is not a problem and is maybe beneficial to the comfort experienced by the rider.

These notes might be of use to others who enjoy touring with their ebikes.

James

PS It was good to see another couple of ProConnect riders in the village of Barrowden.

 

[tillson]

Thanks for taking the time to tell us about this James. It's useful information to have available and it's always interesting to see what other owners have done to their bikes.
Did you source the forks from 50c

 

[JamesC]

Thanks for taking the time to tell us about this James. It's useful information to have available and it's always interesting to see what other owners have done to their bikes.
Did you source the forks from 50c

Yes - they were ordered in for me. I have no doubt that there would be other choices, but it seemed worth staying with the Kalkhoff standard equipment.

James

 

[lemmy]

Very interesting, thanks.

One thing strikes me, three batteries could take a heck of a time to charge consecutively while away. On the other hand, carrying three chargers would take up most of the carrying capacity.

How do you cope with this? I ask because I'm contemplating a trip to France on my Tasman.

 

[oriteroom]

Thanks for info. What's the gizmo on the cross bar - GPS?

Mike

 

[JamesC]

Very interesting, thanks.

One thing strikes me, three batteries could take a heck of a time to charge consecutively while away. On the other hand, carrying three chargers would take up most of the carrying capacity.

How do you cope with this? I ask because I'm contemplating a trip to France on my Tasman.

I used the word touring too losely - circular rides from a base and therefore NOT carrying chargers on the bike - sorry for not making that clear.

I agree that charging multiple batteries with less than the number of chargers would be very time limiting, which might make the larger Panasonic battery that is due out a better bet.

However, it is also useful to carry only the battery capacity that is needed.

One of my chargers is the so called "Travel Charger" that Flecc shows on his website here.

However, this is no smaller, lighter or easier to handle than the Base Charger. But it is more solid and robust.

The performance of the 2 types of charger is identical.

James

 

[JamesC]

Thanks for info. What's the gizmo on the cross bar - GPS?

Mike

That is the Satmap Active 10.

For the UK, the "satmap" uses true Ordnance Survey mapping at either 1:50000 or 1:25000. As a GPS, it places your current position to within about 5 metres directly onto the Ordnance Survey map on screen.

Enables a route to be marked out prior to the ride, and whilst moving it puts down a mark every 1 to 3 seconds (user programmable) to record the route travelled.

Gives back a lot of data regarding time, distance, height, speed etc.

It does not get involved with cadence, heart rate.

The software has come on in leaps and bounds over the past year, making it a really good device now.

European mapping is steadily becoming available, so I will be taking it abroad for the first time this year.

For those interested, the PocketGPSforum has a good section devoted to the Satmap.

James

 

[Tex]

James

Very interesting post. Thanks

You mention that a larger Panasonic battery that is due out - do you have any further information on that?? Timing? Details?

Best

Tex

 

[JamesC]

You mention that a larger Panasonic battery that is due out - do you have any further information on that?? Timing? Details?

Best

Tex

There was a post about it here on the forum quite recently, but I can't find it now.

A wider battery rather than taller, and it was going to need some alteration to fit to older Panasonic power units.

Sorry - someone else will remember where the Post is.

James

 

[Fecn]

Using the batteries down to completely empty (approx 3 miles of flashing prior to cutout) is not recommended except when conditioning, and there is a noticeable reduction in assistance from the motor when the final phase of capacity is reached.

I was doing a conditioning run on one of my batteries a couple of weeks ago. It just so happens that I had a datalogger attached when I did it. I found the dropoff of power once the battery goes below 26v to be very noticable. Just before the final cutout happens at around 22v, the system is providing a measley 150W of peak assistance.

The new 15Ah panasonic battery was mentioned on the BikeTech X-Series thread.... Here... http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/5323-panasonic-300w-15ah-suspension-moutain-bike-photos.html?highlight=biketech

 

[JamesC]

I was doing a conditioning run on one of my batteries a couple of weeks ago. It just so happens that I had a datalogger attached when I did it. I found the dropoff of power once the battery goes below 26v to be very noticable. Just before the final cutout happens at around 22v, the system is providing a measley 150W of peak assistance.

That is a brilliant graph from the datalogger - shows it exactly how it feels to me.

Just as the light begins to flash (presumably set at about 24v ?), there is a very noticeable increase in effort required by the rider. Presumably the Battery Management System is ekeing out the last of the energy very sparingly to avoid significant stress on the battery.

The beauty of carrying additional batteries is that it simply signals a 1 minute stop to plug in a fresh one !

A conditioning ride to fully flat seems neccessary to reset the indicator light stages after the cold of winter. Once that is done, the final stage during which the battery light is flashing occurs at a consistent point.

From your graph, it looks as though the available power drops suddenly at both 26v and again at 25v. Do you reckon that the 1st light goes off at 26v and the 2nd at 25v ?

I am not sure that I notice the 26v moment quite so abruptly, but it is always a joy to change the battery on a steep hill if a suitable stopping place presents itself.

There are some steepish, short sections climbing out of the Welland valley and some lovely downhill runs - I don't think that I am a contender for the 50mph club, but 40 is on the cards.

James

 

[Fecn]

From your graph, it looks as though the available power drops suddenly at both 26v and again at 25v. Do you reckon that the 1st light goes off at 26v and the 2nd at 25v ?

I am not sure that I notice the 26v moment quite so abruptly, but it is always a joy to change the battery on a steep hill if a suitable stopping place presents itself.

There are some steepish, short sections climbing out of the Welland valley and some lovely downhill runs - I don't think that I am a contender for the 50mph club, but 40 is on the cards.

25.9v is the 'nominal' voltage of the pack... which is the voltage it reaches when 90% of the capacity is used up. The voltage drops off very rapidly after that. I've recorded all the charge cycles for my battery since new, so I know for certain that the slow flashing light starts pretty much exactly at 10% remaining charge, which would be... at 25.9v rather conveniently.

I'd guess that the fast flashing light starts at around 5% remaining or around 24V, but that's only a guess as I don't spend much time staring at the battery meter when riding along.

Taking the pack below 21v would be damaging to the pack and prevent it from recharging fully which is why the cutoff happens at ~22.5v.

I'm a contender for the 38.5mph club myself... I've always bottled it any faster than that and hit the brakes.

 

[tillson]

Fecn, do you think the battery charge status works on voltage alone? I am at a bit of a loss to know where I am with regards to the state of my battery in terms of its capacity.

I tend to just ride the bike and forget about the lights to be honest, but after the winter months, I notice that the first two lights go out very much earlier than they used to. However, it seems as though I sufficient charge to go for many miles on a flashing light. I can be down to one flashing light in as little as 10 miles, but continue with the one light flashing up to 25 miles and the battery still hasn't reached the cut off point, or the sudden dip in motor output which you illustrate. It’s as though the flashing light comes on at about 60% fully charged. Why do you think it would do this?

I tried a conditioning discharge a couple of weeks ago in the hope that it would re-set things, which it did for a while, but it soon slipped back to the characteristic I mention above. Perhaps it was a little early in the year to do this (still too cold) and I will try again in May.

You really don’t have to pay too much attention to the lights and just ride the thing. Watching the lights can make me think that I have a battery problem, but now I reckon the range of my bike isn’t too far away from when it was new.

Could the battery charge status meter be more sophisticated than just monitoring battery voltage? For example, could it measure current supplied, voltage and time and calculate charge status from these parameters? This may explain why in cold weather, the battery capacity test tends to show a deterioration. For example, the battery voltage will fall greater than expected in very cold weather after supplying X Amps for t time. This may fool such a system into thinking that the battery is lacking capacity. I seem to remember having a PDA which derived the battery charge status in such a way.

 

[Fecn]

Hi Tilson.

I'm pretty much certain that it doesn't just use voltage alone. The battery meter seems to be measuring watt-hours rather than voltage (certinaly for most of it's range). The final cutout I would expect to be based on voltage though.

 

[NeilP]

I am dragging up an old thread here, but wondered if you found how the battery indicator works.

I can confirm from one of these bikes I have just received as s scrapper, that it does not use battery voltage alone.
If you power the bike from a 40 volt pack, the handle bar mounted light still stays on the bottom lamp only..one lamp lit..so that third wire must do something. Not done any research yet.off to read Flecc's pages