Pro Connect, worth the cash?

Mattyduk · Nov 28, 2008

I can't really say too much about the Mistral as my only experience with Synergie bikes was riding an Extreme for over a year. The Extreme, although very heavy was quite a powerful bike, and I've missed it's power (i've been riding manual for the last year or so) when going up hills and into head winds.

I've searched around for quite a few ebikes that would fit my requirements.

I tried a Carerra Sparc @ £749, but the one i had was faulty and a display model. It's now obsolete, so no new ones available. It was a very comfy bike, but the it didn't have a huge power input on the hills.

Looked at the x-byke, but in the end I was put off by the missile launcher battery - silly thing I know - but I just didn't like it's look a (and more importantly, or did the better half !) and also the requirement to charge it almost every night

Waited for the Infineum which was due in September, but they still haven't got a clue about delivery of their first stock - and it's price is now £1200, so dismissed that one.

Wanted to go for a Cytronex - suited me as they are based in Winchester, a short trip away and as I've been used to using a non powered bike, it sounded like a nice compromise between this and electric. Unfortunately they don't have any stock as they are waiting for a new model next year (which will be more expensive than the current £999).

So in the end, using my company's administered cycle to work scheme, I've gone for a pro-connect at £1500. Hopefully it will be the 36 spoke version and it won't cause too many issues. From what I've read. it's a very good hill climber, is pretty comfortable and has a good range. Should be getting it withing 2 weeks.

Hope my ramblings help !

Mat

tillson · Nov 28, 2008

I think the best thing that you could do is to invest a bit of time in trying both bikes. I could bang on abaout how much I like my Pro C and what a wonderful hill climber it is etc etc, but what I like about the Pro C may not suit you.

I find it has the power to climb any hill that I have encountered. I have not had any problems with the gears (1100 miles so far). I think there may have been some issues with the seven speed hub on another model.

The only slight worry I have is with the 24 spoke rear wheel. Some say that it should be a 36 spoke.

flecc · Nov 28, 2008

I think you'll find all future Pro Connects have 36 spoke wheels.

As for the choice, hub motor bikes and the Panasonic system are very different in the way they operate and personal preference is a very big factor. If you haven't ridden both systems before, it's important to do so before buying. Trying any Panasonic motor bike and any hub motor bike will be sufficient for you to know which system you prefer.
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JamesC · Nov 28, 2008

tillson said:
I think the best thing that you could do is to invest a bit of time in trying both bikes. I could bang on abaout how much I like my Pro C and what a wonderful hill climber it is etc etc, but what I like about the Pro C may not suit you.

I find it has the power to climb any hill that I have encountered. I have not had any problems with the gears (1100 miles so far). I think there may have been some issues with the seven speed hub on another model.

The only slight worry I have is with the 24 spoke rear wheel. Some say that it should be a 36 spoke.

I would say exactly the same thing as Tillson. Mine has done 1000 miles so far.

I enjoy the ProConnect very much. Perfect for serious hills, in my case using a 19T sprocket. In the colder weather on the highest assist setting, the battery range has dropped from 26 miles to 23 miles. In my experience, this is a good performance.

The Nexus 8 hub is fine and an excellent compromise between cost and overall gear range (307%), being exactly equivalent to an 11/34T 8 speed cassette.

Spares for the 24 spoke rear wheel and hub are difficult, and the ride is exceptionally hard with the radial spoke arrangement. Out of personal choice, I use the latest 36 spoke Nexus 8 (Shimano SG-8R36) which is nearly identical with the Shimano Alfine 8 speed on the latest Kalkhoffs.

I find that the ProConnect is at its best on country routes, away from too many stops and starts.
In the city, there is much to be said for the instant response of a throttlecontrolled, hub motor when taking advantage of breaks in the traffic.

James

tillson · Nov 28, 2008

JamesC said:
Out of personal choice, I use the latest 36 spoke Nexus 8 (Shimano SG-8R36) which is nearly identical with the Shimano Alfine 8 speed on the latest Kalkhoffs.

James, have you changed the rear wheel on your Pro C to a 36 spoke design or was it supplied with that wheel from new. If you have changed it, was it as a result of some sort of problem or just out of personal choice.

Regards

Tom

JamesC · Nov 28, 2008

tillson said:
James, have you changed the rear wheel on your Pro C to a 36 spoke design or was it supplied with that wheel from new. If you have changed it, was it as a result of some sort of problem or just out of personal choice.

Regards

Tom

Personal choice - the bike was purchased in June and supplied with the standard 24 spoke wheel WH-8R25. As I take the bike away with me, I like to have key spares to hand. Wheel parts are hard to find in UK and Europe and I did not want to be stranded or forced to switch components if problems arose.

I rate reliability very highly and bought the ProConnect as a touring/trekking bike, albeit limited to rides up to 50 miles with 2 batteries. Wanting to carry some extra weight on the carrier, I was not too happy with the 24 spoke design - lots of stress on the remaining spokes if one spoke goes.

I am happy without suspension on the bike, but I think the ProConnect is very unforgiving at the rear. The more traditional pattern of crossed spokes of thinner gauge delivers some resilience in the wheel - radial spokes at right angles to rim and hub are for the purists IMO.

Lastly, I enjoy building my own wheels and being sure that I can do my own maintenance when required.

As far as I can tell from the outside, the 2009 model from 50Cycles will have the 36 spoke hub and wheel. The written spec for the ProConnect has not been changed yet, so worth asking if the question of the wheel is important to a prospective buyer.

From what has been reported by other members, 50C have been supplying a different wheel when problems have arisen.

James

tillson · Nov 28, 2008

Hmmmm. That’s interesting about the radial spoke pattern on the 24 spoke rim. Now that you have mentioned it, the theory about a crossed spoke pattern giving a more resilient wheel makes perfect sense.

Touch wood, not a hint of a problem with my wheel so far. I hope it continues to be trouble free.

swinnerton · Nov 28, 2008

We bought two identical Pro Connects from 50 cycles shortly after trying them at the Presteigne event.Have had a rear wheel problem on one (my) bike which resulted in 50 cycles refusing to replace under warranty but supplying a new 36 spoke wheel/hub/tyre/tube assembly for £100.The new 36 spoke set up looks and feels so much better than the original 24 spoke set which is fitted to my wife's bike.
We have both recently retired and the purchase of these bikes has been one of the best fun investments we have ever made...they are a delight to ride and make short shrift of even the steepest hill .Apart from the problems with the 24 spoke rear wheel which mountain biking son who has a degree in aeronautical engineering views as "absolute crap and totally inadequate" I feel they are well made and will hopefully provide much pleasure and enjoyment in the years to come.

flecc · Nov 28, 2008

Before the electric versions which were Derby Cycles first venture into the e-bike field, both the Agattu and the Pro Connect existed as normal unpowered bikes and still do.

Having far less than 36 spokes is quite normal on lightweight high quality sport bikes like the unpowered Pro Connect and is quite adequate. Continuing with the 24 spoke wheels on the electric version was probably more an oversight than anything else, simply due to no previous experience with e-bikes, the implications of the greater weight, and transmitting both rider and motor power via the spokes to the rim.
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WALKERMAN · Nov 28, 2008

Rear Wheel

I have been happy with my Pro Connect which I have been using since July doing 70 miles a week. I chose it because I thought it was 'state of the art' and consisted of high quality components.
Now I am reading about the possibility of the rear wheel being unsuitable and in some cases it has already failed. It appears from some of the posts that a different wheel is being fitted to new models which indicates to me that the first wheel was unsuitable. Surely if this wheel is unsafe for the designed pupose the manufacturer should be replacing them free of charge in the same way car manufacturers recall vehicles with faults. Or will they wait until someone is killed or injured?

JamesC · Nov 28, 2008

WALKERMAN said:
I have been happy with my Pro Connect which I have been using since July doing 70 miles a week. I chose it because I thought it was 'state of the art' and consisted of high quality components.
Now I am reading about the possibility of the rear wheel being unsuitable and in some cases it has already failed. It appears from some of the posts that a different wheel is being fitted to new models which indicates to me that the first wheel was unsuitable. Surely if this wheel is unsafe for the designed pupose the manufacturer should be replacing them free of charge in the same way car manufacturers recall vehicles with faults. Or will they wait until someone is killed or injured?

Words like unsuitable and unsafe are probably over the top. I don't feel that they apply in this situation.

One of the advantages of the Kalkhoff range is that there are several models, targeted at different scenarios.

In my mind, the ProConnect is at one end of the scale - smoother tarmac roads, faster, lighter loads.

At the other end is the Agattu XXL capable of heavy loads, heavyweight suspension, utility workhorse.

Alterations to any of the models can tailor the bike to better fit the needs of the individual - I think that was the question at the start of the thread.

James

tillson · Nov 29, 2008

Well, there must be a reason why Derby Cycles changed the rear wheel type on the Pedelec version of the Pro Connect from 24 spoke to 36 spoke. Flecc’s suggestion that it was an oversight during the transition phase of this model from non power assisted to power assisted sounds feasible.

However, there have been instances of the 24 spoke wheel failing and the evidence seems to point to the fact that this is due to its inability to cope with the combination of additional weight and increased traction loads that are intrinsic with pedelecs of this type.

Apart from the inconvenience of being without a bike whilst it is repaired or being faced with a huge bill if 24 spoke components can’t be obtained, the biggest problem as I see it, is if the wheel suffers a sudden and catastrophic failure at speed due to an impact from a pothole or similar.

This begs the question, is the 24 spoke wheel any more susceptible to a sudden failure than a 36 spoke wheel on a pedelec? And if so, is the probability of this happening enhanced due to the wheel being used in an application (ie pedelec) for which it was not originally intended?

Mussels · Nov 29, 2008

tillson said:
Well, there must be a reason why Derby Cycles changed the rear wheel type on the Pedelec version of the Pro Connect from 24 spoke to 36 spoke. Flecc’s suggestion that it was an oversight during the transition phase of this model from non power assisted to power assisted sounds feasible.

However, there have been instances of the 24 spoke wheel failing and the evidence seems to point to the fact that this is due to its inability to cope with the combination of additional weight and increased traction loads that are intrinsic with pedelecs of this type.

Apart from the inconvenience of being without a bike whilst it is repaired or being faced with a huge bill if 24 spoke components can’t be obtained, the biggest problem as I see it, is if the wheel suffers a sudden and catastrophic failure at speed due to an impact from a pothole or similar.

This begs the question, is the 24 spoke wheel any more susceptible to a sudden failure than a 36 spoke wheel on a pedelec? And if so, is the probability of this happening enhanced due to the wheel being used in an application (ie pedelec) for which it was not originally intended?

The type of spoke problem pedelecs are susceptible to is very unlikely to be sudden or dangerous, I suffered from the same problem on a different bike and it was never anything more than irritating.
The failure is usually because the pedaling load is much higher due to the motor and the breaks usually happen after a high load, when you crest a hill and ease off or park it up at work. The number of spokes does not guarantee strength as there is much more to it than that and 36 spoke wheels can suffer the same fault, saying that I can't think of a single good reason to put a 24 spoke wheel on a pedelec.
If I bought a Pro Connect I expect I would break the back wheel but I would also be confident that 50 Cycles would fix it. I only expect to break the back wheel as I have broken some 36 spoke wheels.

JamesC · Nov 29, 2008

Mussels said:
The type of spoke problem pedelecs are susceptible to is very unlikely to be sudden or dangerous, I suffered from the same problem on a different bike and it was never anything more than irritating.
The failure is usually because the pedaling load is much higher due to the motor and the breaks usually happen after a high load, when you crest a hill and ease off or park it up at work. The number of spokes does not guarantee strength as there is much more to it than that and 36 spoke wheels can suffer the same fault, saying that I can't think of a single good reason to put a 24 spoke wheel on a pedelec.
If I bought a Pro Connect I expect I would break the back wheel but I would also be confident that 50 Cycles would fix it. I only expect to break the back wheel as I have broken some 36 spoke wheels.

Well put - I have also suffered broken spokes on 36 spoke wheels on a different bike. Like you, the events were not catastrophic dramas, some occurring when the bike was stationary AFTER a ride.

If a spoke did break whilst out on a ride, I carried a spare in case I was a long way out. Closer to base, I would ride gingerly on 35 spokes.

I would certainly carry a couple of spare spokes for a 24 spoke wheel, and would not recommend riding the bike on 23 spokes.

It has often been said on the forum that spoke breakages usually occur as a result of poor wheelbuilding (uneven tension) or poor quality spokes. I guess that this can apply to any wheel, and the tougher the usage then the more important it becomes to build a good wheel.

If I were investing in an annual service for an ebike that is in regular use, then I would put most of the emphasis on a wheel rebuild with a new set of spokes. Brakes and lubrication should be within the scope of all cyclists.

James

PS I would add that if you do suffer a broken spoke, then it is far safer to assume that fatigue has weakened all of that set and further breakages will follow quite swiftly until the whole set are replaced in a fresh wheelbuild.

tillson · Nov 29, 2008

Sorry dazzie, I think it's my fault for going on about the back wheel. I should have put my comments in another thread.

regards

Tom

timelordUK · Nov 29, 2008

You talk of never having a catastrophic failure.
Spoke broke on my 24 spoke wheel last monday.... I was cycling on a flat cycle path at about 15mph.

Wheel buckled and jammed into the brakes. My bike stopped dead and I cam off. Fortunately I was on a cycle path and not the road.

I have just received my new 36 spoke wheel from 50cycles.... but the hub seems defective.,. only gears 1-4 work. Still tinkering with that one.

JamesC · Nov 30, 2008

timelordUK said:
You talk of never having a catastrophic failure.
Spoke broke on my 24 spoke wheel last monday.... I was cycling on a flat cycle path at about 15mph.

Wheel buckled and jammed into the brakes. My bike stopped dead and I cam off. Fortunately I was on a cycle path and not the road.

I have just received my new 36 spoke wheel from 50cycles.... but the hub seems defective.,. only gears 1-4 work. Still tinkering with that one.

I am sorry to hear of your 24 spoke wheel failure and hope that you are not hurt. I can imagine your relief that it occurred on a traffic free path.

James

Pro Connect, worth the cash?

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