Pre-Purchase advice. (Help me making a major mistake) - About to buy it!!!

[ameeno]

Hi All, I'm Ameeno.

Very new to the forum and E-bikes in general.

I have not cycled for a long time and want to get back into it. I do not have a considerable budget and mostly work from home.

I saw a Muddy Fox Electric Avenue Ebike on Evans for £550 (White Version) - WHich I can buy via my company's cycle-to-work scheme. That would save me the equivalent of 42% on the bike's price as I can pay for its pre-tax salary. https://www.evanscycles.com/brand/muddyfox/electric-avenue-hybrid-bike-700516#colcode=70051611
Considering the savings, I am buying this bike for the equivalent of £312.00, brand new with a 12-month warranty.


I have not found anything else in this price range from a good shop (I am in south London). I would like to do 30 miles round trip in a day with a charge in between if possible.

Things I'm not sure about:
SIngle speed, Cheap components, unknown battery lasting time, not many reviews., bad handle rubber, I might need to upgrade some parts, and the battery is built-in, so I would need to charge it inside.

Things I like: cheap, comes from a good shop, and I can get it under companies scheme.


I want to start exercising over the summer, and if I cycle to work, that's 10Miles so it should fall within the 25-28km range they advertise.

Looking at alternatives, I can only see amazon Swifty bikes in this price range. Can you suggest options I should consider? And whether I can use my cycle scheme?

I also like that this bike is from a good shop, and I have a warranty.

Please advise if this is a good decision, both the bike shop Evans and another bike shop have suggested I should not be buying this bike, but they might just be pushing me into more expensive products.

And if I should get an alternative, what should it be?

 

[matthewslack]

My daily commute is 14 miles, I had a single speed belt drive E-Bike, had no issues.

I believe you need around 18 working amp hours per mile, eg 36volt 13ah battery= 36x13=468 wah

468/18=26 miles

Lots of things alter this, but I find its a fairly realistic calculation of what the range really is as "upto 30Km" often means 15Km with max assist on a flat road.

I hope this information helps..

Its possibly totally wrong and I'm sure someone will correct me..

Your 'working amp hours' are actually watt-hours, written Wh. But correctly calculated as nominal voltage times amp-hours.

Hills make a huge difference, but 18Wh per mile in most cases for bike plus rider and not much luggage should be fine. I like to have 20% margin on top, for confidence in the early days, and allowing for battery aging, which reduces capacity.

 

[ameeno]

Thanks. This is all very useful.

I am not sure I have somewhere at work to take an entire bike in to charge, so not having a detachable battery is a big pain. Seriously couldn't I add a second battery and run them in a series? I'm not too bad with electricals and DIY, or cycle maintanence. I have just never worked on an e bike before (tho do all my own car maintanence and home electrics and Techy stuff).


I guess I would need to do more research once I have specific components. But in theory, if I'm gonna think about all that, am I just better off buying a non elec + kit??? Unfortunately I have no donor bike to hand, and the used market isn't worth it as no cycle to work scheme!!!

 

[Woosh]

Unfortunately I have no donor bike to hand,

just ask around, and your colleagues at work. I am pretty sure that by the time one reaches the middle age, one has at least 5 old bikes languishing in one's shed. There is also gumtree. Budget about £200 for a good donor bike. There are also plenty of charities that give bikes away, free of charge. My local tip has plenty of bikes for a few pounds. You can start with one of them and when you gain experience, move your kit to a better bike.

 

[TripHazard]

Thanks. This is all very useful.

I am not sure I have somewhere at work to take an entire bike in to charge, so not having a detachable battery is a big pain. Seriously couldn't I add a second battery and run them in a series? I'm not too bad with electricals and DIY, or cycle maintanence. I have just never worked on an e bike before (tho do all my own car maintanence and home electrics and Techy stuff).


I guess I would need to do more research once I have specific components. But in theory, if I'm gonna think about all that, am I just better off buying a non elec + kit??? Unfortunately I have no donor bike to hand, and the used market isn't worth it as no cycle to work scheme!!!

The market is flooded with £800 bikes for less than 200 due to people buying bikes during COVID and never using them. I picked up 2 second hand bike to convert for £350 with a new value of £1200. Conversion cost me £570 and I have a bike with a range of 80 miles+ that pulls really well and ride like a normal bike when needed.. Shop bought E bikes are far more expensive with far inferior components. Whoosh sell conversion kits you can use cycle to work scheme vouchers with and I'm sure If I can fine almost new bikes for £150 anyone can.

Bike in the pic cost £200.. +£570 for motor and battery (Its a 20AH Battery)

 

[sjpt]

Seriously couldn't I add a second battery and run them in a series?

Asking that indicates your aren't too sure on electrics; if you could add a second battery it would need to be in parallel. And, as others have already said, adding a second battery in parallel needs a lot of care, and is dangerous (risk of battery fire) if you get it wrong.

I'm afraid you've just got to admit to yourself that the Muddy Fox is not for your commute.
A conversion of a good 2nd hand bike looks appropriate, but of course you won't get any cycle to work scheme help on the 2nd hand bike.

p.s. just noticed a typo in an earlier post of mine, too late to edit.
They don't specify battery size, but guessing from the charging time probably 6 to 7ah, around 200-250wh
I wrongly typed around 200-300wh
Around half what we have suggested you need, 400wh to 500wh.

 

[Waspy]

26" wheeled mountain bikes are totally out of fashion now and nobody wants them.

On Gumtree you can pay between £50 for a rust bucket or £150 for really nice one.

You sound like you are handy with tools, think about a kit.

My one tip would be to buy a Crank extractor tool from Park Tool, cheap ones can strip your threads (don't ask how I know this), also watch RJ The Bike Guy on Youtube, OK that's two tips.

This is my 26" Trek 4300 (£120 from Gumtree) fitted with a Woosh kit with a 13ah battery for £535. (chance to post bragging pics)....also, Woosh answer their phone!

 

[Bonzo Banana]

I personally think the Muddyfox is a good cheap ebike purely because its so basic and keeps everything simple. It has 3 assist levels and should be easy to maintain. The big issue is range and how heavy you are and how much assistance you can provide to the ebike for hills. You could buy it and be more than happy with the assistance level of the motor or you could find it is not enough for you because of lack of gears. It's an ebike so will be desirable to thieves even a cheap one like this, will it be secure where you work? Can you charge it at work? If you can charge it at work I don't see a problem myself but if you can't then you will be probably limited to the minimum assistance level.

As a day to day commuting bike with no gears to adjust or think about I think its a great option. Seems a near perfect commuting bike for a bike you want to use frequently but not have to spend time maintaining it. If you are competent with a soldering iron I'm sure you could work out how to use another 36V battery with it. You can get cheap hoverboard type batteries from aliexpress of similar capacity probably to the battery supplied. It's a geared hub motor so even when the battery runs out it will still freewheel well and its no the end of the world to have to walk up a hill occasionally if you misjudge battery capacity.

No suspension, no gears, thick tyres, easy to ride seems a good option to me especially if after tax deduction you are getting it less than £400 in real terms.

It will provide about 45Nm of torque in full power mode. If you are struggling with the bikes gearing you could lower it, either a smaller chainring on the front or larger freewheel on the back. These are cheap options to lower the gearing to make hills easier so you can provide more assistance to the motor for steeper hills. You won't even have to turn the motor on for downhill.

Seems an absolute bargain to me. It's very similar to the Argos single speed ebike. So that might help getting a better picture of the product.

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9426070?clickSR=slp:term:electric%20bikes:1:81:2

 

[sjpt]

Seems an absolute bargain to me. It's very similar to the Argos single speed ebike. So that might help getting a better picture of the product.

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9426070?clickSR=slp:term:electric%20bikes:1:81:2

The Argos one has only a 5.2ah battery (approx 187wh) so even smaller than our guess on the Muddy Fox. At least it does admit to it in the specs. A typically absurd '21.75 miles per full charge'.

 

[ameeno]

Thanks for all the tips. I decided not to buy this and instead buy something better for a bitt more

 

[ameeno]

The market is flooded with £800 bikes for less than 200 due to people buying bikes during COVID and never using them. I picked up 2 second hand bike to convert for £350 with a new value of £1200. Conversion cost me £570 and I have a bike with a range of 80 miles+ that pulls really well and ride like a normal bike when needed.. Shop bought E bikes are far more expensive with far inferior components. Whoosh sell conversion kits you can use cycle to work scheme vouchers with and I'm sure If I can fine almost new bikes for £150 anyone can.

Bike in the pic cost £200.. +£570 for motor and battery (Its a 20AH Battery)

You, friend have given brilliant advice. might look into a kit from woosh + an underpriced gumtree donor. this sounds very sensible.

 

[ameeno]

26" wheeled mountain bikes are totally out of fashion now and nobody wants them.

On Gumtree you can pay between £50 for a rust bucket or £150 for really nice one.

You sound like you are handy with tools, think about a kit.

My one tip would be to buy a Crank extractor tool from Park Tool, cheap ones can strip your threads (don't ask how I know this), also watch RJ The Bike Guy on Youtube, OK that's two tips.

This is my 26" Trek 4300 (£120 from Gumtree) fitted with a Woosh kit with a 13ah battery for £535. (chance to post bragging pics)....also, Woosh answer their phone!

and you too. good tips

 

[Az.]

Don't be afraid of conversion. Installing a front hub motor is as easy as changing wheel and attaching battery to bike. Yes, it will take time and will cost some money, but in return you will get total control over your bike, components and maintenance.
Bike is an investment for years. Take that into account. Buying cheap now will be more expensive in long run.

 

[Az.]

Bike in the pic cost £200.. +£570 for motor and battery (Its a 20AH Battery)

Beautiful bike and super tidy conversion.
Awful battery, but there is very little what can be done about that.

 

[TripHazard]

Beautiful bike and super tidy conversion.
Awful battery, but there is very little what can be done about that.

Why awful battery?

 

[Az.]

Why awful battery?

Just looks ugly IMO. Big, heavy lump.

 

[TripHazard]

Just looks ugly IMO. Big, heavy lump.

Ah ok.. yes it does, I did want to go for maximum range and also cheap/ easy to replace, but totally true it is an eyesore. I was worried you were going to say "blows up or full or cheap cells"..

 

[Bonzo Banana]

The Argos one has only a 5.2ah battery (approx 187wh) so even smaller than our guess on the Muddy Fox. At least it does admit to it in the specs. A typically absurd '21.75 miles per full charge'.

I sort of suspect they could be the same. I think its about the same as some of the Swytch kits. For a sub 10 mile commute where you can charge inbetween trips I don't see a problem with the capacity, it keeps the bike relatively light and nimble. Also if you need a second battery you can go with one of those hoverboard type batteries which are similar capacity and could be mounted in a saddle bag easily. A good one of those could be got for about £35 delivered from aliexpress, a bad one perhaps £20.

 

[sjpt]

For a sub 10 mile commute where you can charge inbetween trips I don't see a problem with the capacity

I think OP's commute is 10 miles each way, with no chance to charge at work.

 

[lightning]

l've got a Mirider 1 and it's superb, but expensive at £1500

l've looked at (and ridden) cheaper alternatives and many aren't that great. But the Woosh Rambletta looks great at £995.

l've nothing to do with either company (Mirider or Woosh) but just going off my own research.