Pre-Purchase advice. (Help me making a major mistake) - About to buy it!!!

[ameeno]

Hi All, I'm Ameeno.

Very new to the forum and E-bikes in general.

I have not cycled for a long time and want to get back into it. I do not have a considerable budget and mostly work from home.

I saw a Muddy Fox Electric Avenue Ebike on Evans for £550 (White Version) - WHich I can buy via my company's cycle-to-work scheme. That would save me the equivalent of 42% on the bike's price as I can pay for its pre-tax salary. https://www.evanscycles.com/brand/muddyfox/electric-avenue-hybrid-bike-700516#colcode=70051611
Considering the savings, I am buying this bike for the equivalent of £312.00, brand new with a 12-month warranty.


I have not found anything else in this price range from a good shop (I am in south London). I would like to do 30 miles round trip in a day with a charge in between if possible.

Things I'm not sure about:
SIngle speed, Cheap components, unknown battery lasting time, not many reviews., bad handle rubber, I might need to upgrade some parts, and the battery is built-in, so I would need to charge it inside.

Things I like: cheap, comes from a good shop, and I can get it under companies scheme.


I want to start exercising over the summer, and if I cycle to work, that's 10Miles so it should fall within the 25-28km range they advertise.

Looking at alternatives, I can only see amazon Swifty bikes in this price range. Can you suggest options I should consider? And whether I can use my cycle scheme?

I also like that this bike is from a good shop, and I have a warranty.

Please advise if this is a good decision, both the bike shop Evans and another bike shop have suggested I should not be buying this bike, but they might just be pushing me into more expensive products.

And if I should get an alternative, what should it be?

 

[ameeno]

I also wanted to add that I looked at self-build kits & buying a used hybrid bike locally.

I have found that it is impossible to buy a decent used hybrid bike for less than a few hundred that isn't very old. Also, they have no warranty. Also, I do not feel comfortable enough yet to self-build.

And additionally, the online amazon bikes I found that are in a similar price range do not get cycle-to-work scheme approval, so it Would cost me double in real te. And from what I have read, the Evans warranty will be loads better than an online-only Chinese bike vendor.

 

[sjpt]

The main cost-cutting on that bike (as on many cheap ebikes) is the battery. Take the advertised range with a pinch of salt; that will probably be on flat well-tarmacked roads on the lowest assist level. Even the 25km range they suggests is around 15 miles, which is well short of the 30 miles you were hoping for. They don't specify battery size, but guessing from the charging time probably 6 to 7ah, around 200-300wh. Also unless your commute is very flat you'll probably find the lack of gears quite limiting.

Small battery and lack of gears do keep the weight down.

It it is quite flat you'll probably do better with a better quality non-electric bike.

Evans gets quite a mixed press; over 40% lowest rating on Trust Pilot.

 

[ameeno]

The main cost-cutting on that bike (as on many cheap e-bikes) is the battery. Take the advertised range with a pinch of salt; that will probably be on flat well-tarmacked roads on the lowest assist level. Even the 25km range they suggest is around 15 miles, which is well short of the 30 miles you were hoping for. They don't specify battery size, but guessing from the charging time probably 6 to 7ah, around 200-300wh. Also unless your commute is very flat you'll probably find the lack of gears quite limiting.

The small battery and lack of gears do keep the weight down.

If it is quite flat you'll probably do better with a better quality non-electric bike.

Evans gets quite a mixed press; over 40% lowest rating on Trust Pilot.

Hiya, Thanks for this, I have looked online at alternatives, Woosh bikes have a hybrid but it's £1200, I see there is something called a Pure Flux One hybrid, and there are a few more.

I suppose I could be willing to stretch to £1000-1200 for this purchase, DO you know what else I should do? or should I get a non-elect one and a Kit?

Ultimately, it is very hard to get everything I want under the cycle-to-work scheme, as only certain retailers are included.

 

[sjpt]

Ultimately, it is very hard to get everything I want under the cycle-to-work scheme, as only certain retailers are included.

Yes, that seems confusing, especially as there are lots of schemes.

I didn't mention Woosh but you will see they are highly regarded (we have a Woosh kit) and will almost certainly give better service than Evans unless you are really lucky with your local Evans. The Woosh will be in a different class than that Muddy Fox ; but it is more than twice as expensive. Woosh are in some cycle schemes.

If you haven't already got a suitable bike you are probably better off with a full ebike rather than conversion. If you see a bargain non-electric 2nd hand it might be worth the conversion route.

You haven't said how fit you are, and how hilly your commute. Also, is the 10 miles one way or total? I still think a good quality non-e bike (not converted) could be your best bet.

 

[ameeno]

I'm very unfit currently and want to get back into it. though in my younger years I was a keen cyclist and very fit, so I'm ok at bicycle maintenance and changing tubes and modifying saddles and bits, but perhaps not good enough for a full bike conversion.

Woosh looks OK, but they are a bit far away.

The scheme my work uses is the green commute initiative. they have some online vendors on there books i think

 

[sjpt]

Woosh most deal by mail; I think you'll find most of their satisfied customers have never been near the shop. The Faro with smaller battery is £999; but that battery, while bigger than the Muddy Fox's, is still under 300wh.

Conversion is pretty easy if you do decide that route. Send photos to Woosh in advance and they'll spot any likely difficult points.

You still haven't said if the commute is hilly or not, and if it's 5 miles each way or 10.

 

[ameeno]

Hiya, my commute is around 10 miles each way, and might be hilly, i'm not sure really as i take the train/tube right now and i would expect some hills on the way.

My present thoughts are maybe the muddy fox is a bad buy and i should consider another bike.

(no real specs or details on muddyfox battery or anything, which is scary.)

 

[sjpt]

Yes, I'm afraid the Muddy Fox almost certainly won't manage that commute. Somebody really fit could, just about using minimal assist. You probably want one with at least a 400wh battery, that's around 11ah for the typical 36v. The Faro with smaller battery would be touch and go too.

It's worth looking at your commute carefully to see how hilly.
Lots of specialist cycle map sites will probably give more . eg https://cycle.travel/map will choose a route, and if you select the 'show elevation' icon under 'route tools' will also show steepness with colours.

With more common sites:
If you go to Bing maps (https://www.bing.com/maps) there is a dropdown top right that will give you Ordinance Survey map. Of check the route on maps.google.com and select bicycle. That will show you the profile of ups and downs.

 

[soundwave]

Cube Reaction Hybrid Performance 625 Electric Mountain Bike Apple

Cube Reaction Hybrid Performance 625 Electric Mountain Bike Apple £2699.00

www.theelectricbikeshop.co.uk

that will do 20 miles on one charge easy the batt do last years and it wont fall to bits but it is not cheap.

also stock everywhere is low or none at all.

 

[ameeno]

ok looking at my commute its quite hilly on return. this bike is single speed and not sure of battery size and components. not sure I should buy it

 

[ameeno]

the cube is too expensive. what else could I buy up to 1200

 

[Waspy]

the cube is too expensive. what else could I buy up to 1200

Decathlon have a range of e-bikes under 1K

Link: Decathlon

 

[matthewslack]

Worth stretching the budget to get something that really does the job well, because it will make even a hilly 10 miles a piece of cake. Remember you will recoup your commuting travel costs every day you ride instead.

On range, 20 miles total needs minimum 500Wh battery to be comfortable, but if the battery is easily removable and you are able to charge at work, then smaller battery will cope.

 

[ameeno]

Yep I like the decathlon ranges, eyeing the elops 900. Also considering the woosh bike ranges. The Freya and camiro I think there called!!! Altho to be honest the price after voucher for the Evans bike is £300. Is that not worth it? Could I add an extra battery?

 

[Woosh]

Yep I like the decathlon ranges, eyeing the elops 900. Also considering the woosh bike ranges. The Freya and camiro I think there called!!!

You mean the Faro (https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?faro) and the Camino (https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?camino)?

Both can be fitted with suspension seat post if you are 5ft9+ for better comfort but only the FARO fits your budget requirement.

I like your initial choice of the Muddyfox. It's uncomplicated but the battery capacity may not be enough for your distance.
In any case, you will need to upgrade the tyres to Schwalbe Marathon Plus to puncture proof the bike.

 

[ameeno]

Yes that's the ones. Sorry typing on my phone and don't remember name exactly. With the muddyfox I was wondering If I modded it with a throttle and derestrict it + maybe add a companion battery on the outside in a frame mounted or pannier mounted holder. Is it possible to like get a 2nd battery that wires in series with the other battery?

I noted your advice on armoured tyres and even considered slime in the tubes + Kevlar tube guard in the tyres.


The problem with the muddyfox is the details are quite soon regarding the battery size or anything like that and Evans don't answer the phone.


Another option is the carerra vengeance e.

Ultimately I'm not a super cyclist so some things that annoy enthusiasts might be fine for me. And I do think the bike (muddyfox) is crazy cheap when compared with competition.


The toss up is £550 is still too much money to just throw away on something that will be wasted In 12 months.

But are the features on other bikes worth double? Couldn't I just buy an extra battery on a pannier that adds 2kg in weight for like 200 quid and have the best of both worlds?

Also I might try and derestrict the muddyfox.


I'm so torn hahaha

 

[Woosh]

With the muddyfox I was wondering If I modded it with a throttle and derestrict it + maybe add a companion battery on the outside in a frame mounted or pannier mounted holder. Is it possible to like get a 2nd battery that wires in series with the other battery?

the short answer is no. You can't easily add anything to the bike unless you are very good with electronics.
If you go with the Muddyfox, you should bring the charger with you or buy a second charger and recharge it at work for an hour or two.

 

[ameeno]

AHH no idea what the true capacity of the battery is and Evans don't answer the phone man..... So hard. Might just pay more for a better bike from better sellers

 

[TripHazard]

My daily commute is 14 miles, I had a single speed belt drive E-Bike, had no issues.

I believe you need around 18 working amp hours per mile, eg 36volt 13ah battery= 36x13=468 wah

468/18=26 miles

Lots of things alter this, but I find its a fairly realistic calculation of what the range really is as "upto 30Km" often means 15Km with max assist on a flat road.

I hope this information helps..

Its possibly totally wrong and I'm sure someone will correct me..

 

[Woosh]

AHH no idea what the true capacity of the battery is and Evans don't answer the phone man

battery is the most expensive component in any e-bike after a crank drive motor so it's not hard to see why cheaper e-bikes have a smaller battery capacity. Typically, if you ride a bike at 15mph in perfect weather condition (no headwind, no rain), the total energy required is 200W. Manufacturers estimate that the average rider can put in 100W, the bike will put in the difference, 100W. Over 1 hour, that translates into 100WH for 15 miles or 6WH per mile. I usually estimate double that, 12WH per mile to be more realistic as people may ride in adverse conditions, big hills, headwinds etc. For your commute, you'll need 36V 13AH at a minimum if you don't want to charge up every day at work.

One common theme among questions asked by newbies is how to derestrict a bike and/or add a throttle. No manufacturer will want their bikes derestricted, so the short answer is build your own bike.
Most cycle to work schemes will let you use your voucher to buy a kit.