"Police stat shows that 260 electric powered bicycles were seized by officers last year"

[soundwave]

https://flic.kr/p/2jWP75v
they raided me they did no search warrants cider squad with face masks, removed as soon as through the door fkn 7am

i just made a spliff and let them get on with it then got are you smoking weed, yep want some or better put ur face masks back on then.

 

[thelarkbox]

So what are the limitations of ministers deciding on a whim to change the law, could they ?

Increase the legal speed limit of a pedelec ?

Increase the power limit of a pedelec ?

Permit parties in lockdown in 10 Downing street ?

It depends on which interested party is footing the huge lobbying bill and how deep their pockets are Shirley.

Someone mentioned Amazon's new ebike cargo fleet recently

 

[Deleted member 16246]

These links are quite interesting on the matter of enforcement or non enforcement of rules about riding on the pavement:

Cycling on the Pavement: What are the Rules?

Knowing whether cycling on the pavement is technically legal or not can be challenging, but it's important that the rules are followed to keep all road users safe.

www.first4lawyers.com

Transport minister: Responsible cyclists CAN ride on the pavement

Robert Goodwill tells Stop Killing Cyclists campaigner that 1999 Home Office guidance still applies & police must use discretion

road.cc

 

[Az.]

Perfect example how data can be manipulated to give false impression. Somebody might think number of staff has been cut by half over period 2010-2016.

 

[lenny]

Perfect example how data can be manipulated to give false impression. Somebody might think number of staff has been cut by half over period 2010-2016.

Police Workforce: Officer Numbers in 2023 (Part 1)

How many police officers are there across the UK in 2023? Have officers kept pace with the population ? This blog explores the latest police workforce stats.

policepromotion.blog

 

[soundwave]

these days no one will even see me or take any notice even at 35mpshweaving in and out of them they dont care



and im still not dead or killed anyone yet.

 

[Deleted member 16246]

Perfect example how data can be manipulated to give false impression. Somebody might think number of staff has been cut by half over period 2010-2016.

Yes - Y axis starts not at zero but at 110,000. I hate that kind of tricky graph. Something similar is often used in climate graphs leading to catastrophizing remarks and conclusions. Mostly, they come in teh form of temperature anomaly graphs showing apparently wild swings. When you dig deep into climate data, you may be surprised to find out that the mean global temperature of planet Earth has risen in 150 years from 14C to a touch over 15c. For the UK the mean temperature across the year is 9.42 degrees. In 1895 it was 8C. 'We're doomed I tell yae', or maybe not.

 

[soundwave]

Yes - Y axis starts not at zero but at 110,000. I hate that kind of tricky graph. Something similar is often used in climate graphs leading to catastrophizing remarks and conclusions. Mostly, they come in teh form of temperature anomaly graphs showing apparently wild swings. When you dig deep into climate data, you may be surprised to find out that the mean global temperature of planet Earth has risen in 150 years from 14C to a touch over 15c. For the UK the mean temperature across the year is 9.42 degrees. In 1895 it was 8C. 'We're doomed I tell yae', or maybe not.

we need to blow up the moon

 

[soundwave]

 

[Woosh]

The output it gave for 15 and 20 miles an hour were in line with what I expected by estimate, namely that the energy of the stated mass pretty much doubles as the speed increases from 15mph to 20mph.

I am well aware of the way energy increases at the square of the speed of a moving body, so it is technically correct that faster means more damage in a collision though on the question of how 'massive' that difference is between 15 and 20 miles an hour, I think you are being hyperbolic. At 15 miles an hour the KE in joules of an 80 kilo bike and man is 0.000694 Joules. Five miles an hour faster it is 0.00123 Joules, under twice the lower speed amount. Massive? I don't know.

that was a minor point in the calculations of kinetic energy.
at 15.5mph, kinetic energy of 80kg object : 0.5 * 80kg * 6.94m/s * 6.94m/s = 1,941J
at 20mph, the same object would have: 0.5 * 80kg * 8.91m/s * 8.91m/s = 3,175J
The damage in a collision will of course depends on a lot of other circumstantial factors.

 

[flecc]

So what are the limitations of ministers deciding on a whim to change the law, could they ?

Increase the legal speed limit of a pedelec ?

Increase the power limit of a pedelec ?

Permit parties in lockdown in 10 Downing street ?

Obviously not the latter. Ministerial orders permitting ignoring laws in prescribed circumances are usually long preceded by well understood and discussed circumstances, OR to deal with exceptional circumstances. It is only that last one we should worry about.

Take the three examples I posted:

1) the year 2000 permission to cycle on pavements when in fear of traffic: As I've already observed, cyclists were first given permission to ride of pavements when shared footpaths were introduced 20 years earlier, so that and the desirability was already a much discussed and understood subject.

2) the year 2013 permission to regularise the 250 watts in place of the British law's 200 by ordering the police to accept the variation in watts: This was already the law anyway, but that only seemed to be known to me and our courts, since the DfT and the police were blind to the facts. Basically the ministerial order was unnecessary, only covering the DfT's own error 10 years earlier. In addition, the DfT had held a public consultation in 2010 and reported on its conclusions in 2012, so the interested public had every opportunity to be aware years in advance.

3) the 2019 order that an EAPC could through type approval have a fully acting thottle and be still treated as a bicycle for all purposes: Ths again had been dealt with by the public consultation and response of 2010/2012, which had revealed a widespread desire for such a measure. So that misterial order was answering a public desire.

So you can see there's little to be feared from such adjustment orders.

The ones we should watch are the so called exceptional circumstance ones, like those for Covid. For example Matt Hancock's ridiculously excessive fines imposed on a whim were grossly abusive, breached existing parliamentary law, encouraged police to abuse their powers, were not only ineffective but actually promoted widespread disobedience of the Covid regulations, spreading the disease much further.
.

 

[Deleted member 16246]

that was a minor point in the calculations of kinetic energy.
at 15.5mph, kinetic energy of 80kg object : 0.5 * 80kg * 6.94m/s * 6.94m/s = 1,941J
at 20mph, the same object would have: 0.5 * 80kg * 8.91m/s * 8.91m/s = 3,175J
The damage in a collision will of course depends on a lot of other circumstantial factors.

Maybe I am coming over as a pedantic idiot. Put it down to advancing dementia.....

 

[saneagle]

Riding on the pavement is similar in law to fixing your gas boiler. A gas boiler can only be fixed by a "competent person". If you fix it and everything is OK, you are therefore de facto competent, but if it blows up, you were not competent, so you go to jail; however, if you have a certificate of competency, it counts as a "get out of jail" card.

Riding on the pavement is generally OK as long as it's not a specific pedestrian zone. If you don't hit anyone, or put them in danger and you don't do anything irresponsible, nobody cares, but if you do something stupid, like injure or frighten someone, you'd have to face the consequences.

 

[Az.]

at 15.5mph, kinetic energy of 80kg object : 0.5 * 80kg * 6.94m/s * 6.94m/s = 1,941J
at 20mph, the same object would have: 0.5 * 80kg * 8.91m/s * 8.91m/s = 3,175J

Add extra weight of 20kg and kinetic energy almost doubles. And it is only 5mph increase in speed.

 

[saneagle]

If a 75kg rider was riding a 25kg electric bike at 15 mph and a pedestrian grabbed his bike and stopped it, the energy dissipated would be around 0.6 Calories, so if they did it around 76 times, the pedestrian could eat a Mars bar and mot have to worry about putting on weight.

I think I might go down to the cycle path near the town centre to try it out. A faster place might be better, but they're going to be more difficult to catch. I tried it on Guerney a few months back, but I couldn't catch him because I was dazzled by his lights, so went hungry that night. Maybe daytime would give me a better chance.

Just a warning about trying that. If you mess up and get hit by the bike, the energy gets added to you, so you put on weight. Best to stand to the side and catch them with a grappling hook.

Or if a guy weighing 100kg jumped off beachy head when the tide is in, he'd heat up the sea the equivalent of 30 grams of it by one degree C.

 

[StuartsProjects]

Obviously not the latter.

I asked if a minister on whim could change the law relating to electic bikes as in could a minister;

Increase the legal speed limit of a pedelec ?

Increase the power limit of a pedelec ?

So you are suggesting that to make changes to these laws a 'Minister' can just write a letter ?

 

[Scorpio]

From the article :
Nearly 1,000 ‘Lycra lout’ cyclists fined in City of London Police crackdown
Oofficers also made 80 arrests, seized 192 illegal e-bikes and scooters, and gave safety advice to 8,663 people in nine months.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/cyclists-fined-city-police-london-bank-junction-b1152140.html

My first thought is that it's a PR excercise rather than an actual campaign to make the roads safer but I could be wrong.

 

[lenny]

Nearly 1,000 ‘Lycra lout’ cyclists fined in City of London Police crackdown

Bike riders repeatedly jumped red lights at one of the Square Mile’s busiest road junctions

www.standard.co.uk

"Riders caught breaking the law are invited to sit inside an HGV lorry outside Mansion House to see how the road looks from the driver’s cab to prevent further deaths."

 

[flecc]

I asked if a minister on whim could change the law relating to electic bikes as in could a minister;

Increase the legal speed limit of a pedelec ?

Increase the power limit of a pedelec ?

So you are suggesting that to make changes to these laws a 'Minister' can just write a letter ?

Sorry, I missed this response from you.

No, I'm not suggesting that at all. If you reread my post you will see that for such substansive changes there would have to be precedent in discussion about the subject making it already well understood and appreciated. Such as a consultation or a partial move in that direction already in force.

There hasn't been on either of these, quite the opposite in fact, a complete rejection of the proposal to adopt the S class speed pedelecs which would bring increases in both speed and power.
.
.

 

[StuartsProjects]

for such substansive changes there would have to be precedent in discussion about the subject making it already well understood and appreciated. Such as a consultation or a partial move in that direction already in force.

So in the case of the current consultation around increasing the power limit to 350W, no change in the law is needed to make 350W legal, some Minister just needs to write a letter ?