October 28, 201411 yr With the ever more prominent selling of illegally fast e-bikes, it had to happen before long. The story is on this link .
October 28, 201411 yr According to the UK dealer the police and the representatives of the Trading Standards Institute told him that the de-restricted e-bike is safe and the dongle is safe. However, the authorities also told the UK dealer: "Combining the two items constitutes a new product. If the new product does not fall into any exemption class (eg EPAC), and has not been tested, it is assumed to be unsafe - irrespective of whether the bikes are used off or on road." I don't get this. If a customer buys and fits a dongle to his bike, or if he changes the speed limit on his LCD, his bike is safe according to the quote above. There is no need to do both. Or did I miss something here?
October 28, 201411 yr Speed Tuning Kits Threaten E-Bike Market Development 0248LAWS & REGULATIONS LONDON, UK – Currently the London police and officers from the UK Trading Standards Institute are checking UK dealers if they are selling speed tuning kits for e-bikes; or if they are selling de-restricted electric bicycles. With this operation authorities are building a case on rogue e-bike traders. http://www.bike-eu.com/Resizes/mainarticleimage/PageFiles/16/04/20416/001_rb-image-1630454.jpeg The report Bike Europe received from one of the UK dealers specializing in e-bikes, follows after earlier reports from Germany where authorities also checked upon dealers on the sale of street-legal e-bikes. Assumed to be unsafe According to the UK dealer the police and the representatives of the Trading Standards Institute told him that the de-restricted e-bike is safe and the dongle is safe. However, the authorities also told the UK dealer: "Combining the two items constitutes a new product. If the new product does not fall into any exemption class (eg EPAC), and has not been tested, it is assumed to be unsafe - irrespective of whether the bikes are used off or on road." Offering Numerous webshops (like www.e-bikeshop.co.uk - www.emc-deurne.nl –www.ewerk-aachen.de) are currently offering e-bike tuning kits. The one for Bosch systems looks the same at all webshops with similar photos used online. Pressure on other retailers According to the UK dealer: "The promotion and sale of this un-tested type of e-bike puts huge pressure on other retailers to follow suit. If manufacturers and distributors allow this trend to continue un-checked the market for compliant e-bikes will shrink as the public shun products built to legal speeds and choose instead modified models with no speed restrictions." The question that all this is posing is how to fight this and/or whether the tuning of e-bikes can be stopped or limited? Is this the same as what happens with mopeds and scooters that are tuned by youngsters? Bike Europe invites others to comment. by JACK OORTWIJN
October 28, 201411 yr A real conundrum Flecc. Speed pedelecs are legal in many countries now but as usual we in the UK are way, way behind. The problem is of course now the police know what to look out for there will certainly be prosecutions. I was recently informed by a customer in Spain that the police there are also cracking down. A freind of theirs was recently fined €2,200 for riding a bike with a throttle and no EN15194 certification. I can imagine the DPP taking a similar stance in the UK if they catch an offender. The fact is that anyone caught riding a machine that will go faster than 16mph or with a motor of more than 350W they are driving an uninsured, un registered vehicle. I would assume huge fines and probably a driving ban for those with a car licence would ensue, esp. if there had been an accident. Worst still, someone on an illegal machine will injure a pedestrian very soon, of that there is no doubt. People are simply not expecting a push bike to be heading for them at 30mph especially if they are coming up a hill. With ebikes finally taking off in the UK, this is the kind of publicity we could all do without. The obvious answer as far as local authorities are concerned would be to simply ban all ebikes from our cities. We are asked for speed Pedelecs daily but resist ..... just about. It is very tempting and of course these machines are great fun! I wonder, if someone had a serious accident on one of these machines whether they would carry any kind of insurance, if not we could see people losing there houses and being made bankrupt? Also how would the suppliers public liability insurance hold up? All the best David
October 28, 201411 yr Throttles are still legal here in uk though I believe And even when new legislation does come in they will have grandfather rights. Again that's my belief
October 28, 201411 yr @DM: would you please post more details on what the guy was fined €2,200 for? lots of us ride our bikes in Europe and so far, I have never heard of anyone getting fined for having a throttle.
October 28, 201411 yr Throttles are still legal here in uk though I believe And even when new legislation does come in they will have grandfather rights. Again that's my belief You are absolutely correct Kirstin. There is currently no problem buying and using bikes with throttles in the UK. And when next year they are made illegal, as you say, grandfather rights will apply, so no worries about bikes with throttle bought before the law changes. All the best David
October 28, 201411 yr Today I incurred some attention from the traffic police... I was pedaling up an incline much faster than my aging body should have been able to go and I noticed a police car behind me as I stopped at the lights. On green I shot away in turbo mode (as one does) and the police car followed and passed me slowly having a good look.. Mmm! at the next lay by he was stopped giving me another look. Mmmmm! He then passed me again, turning round up the road to pass me a third time, Mmmmm. It could be that he was interested for reasons of curiosity but I did think I might be pulled over.... It did make me think that my decision to not buy a dongle was the correct one.
October 28, 201411 yr I find it puzzling that James is against tuning dongles but sells speed pedelecs. To me there is not much difference as neither can currently be road legals on the roads. Pot kettle and black spring to mind. Especially given no real evidence of how you could legally ride them on the road. The law may change but not currently. It really annoys me when traders slate others and then do something similar. May be it is just me, rant over. Hopefully we will soon be able to legally ride speed pedelecs for those who want them. http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/speed-pedelecs-registration-bs-or-believable.19263/#post-239904 http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/raleigh-scoops-koga-sales-rights-in-the-uk.19258/page-2#post-239883
October 28, 201411 yr +"One of the UK dealers" \well I wonder which one. Maybe the one who goes on about them all the time on here:(
October 28, 201411 yr Here's the nub of it, an extract from Bike Europe news... E.H.S Schless 17:16 Picky, picky, picky. Modifying vehicles is half the fun. I know this is a European dealer trade magazine but I'm a loud, fast, obnoxious American, stereotypically averse to silly regulations. These bikes, even at their most illegal power levels, are still relatively anemic and harmless. What is the real danger here? The industry could use some some edge.....maybe the market will increase if bikes are more powerful, which seems to be the case for all things human.I say get over it. # 7 j fitzGerald 18:18 Think, think, think E.H. Your world goes like this: everyone de-restricts; someone's killed; red-tops shout "killer e-bikes"; Governments react with laws and taxes; everyone loses. Your countryman Ed Benjamin, an e-bike expert (ecycleelectric.com), has a wise response to those asking why govs aren’t doing more to encourage e-bike use: “the most important contribution they make is not interfering”. De-restricting e-bikes will force governments to interfere. You can have fast e-bikes and taxes, or fast enough e-bikes and freedom. Edited October 28, 201411 yr by james@justebikes.co.uk
October 28, 201411 yr Seems a bit dodgy that 'one' anonymous UK dealer (presumably legit) has notified the publication that they have been raided for dodgy bikes. Seems fishy to me - unless any other UK dealers can verify the story.
October 29, 201411 yr I find it puzzling that James is against tuning dongles but sells speed pedelecs. To me there is not much difference as neither can currently be road legals on the roads. I can't answer for James. But there is a clear difference. sPedelec are built as a bicycle around that speed. The brand of bike and motor and government have certified it safe to use. The fact its still illegal on the roads isn't the point James is trying to make. a dongle, changes a bike that is certified safe into a product that has not been tested at all, and can therefore not be considered safe. This is a very important difference, and anyone selling products as a retailer needs to understand the "product safety law". Retailers selling dongles, clearly don't!
October 29, 201411 yr My point is they are similar and it is double standards. If someone questioned dongles and sold neither I would not have a problem. However that is all I am going to say, not interested in getting into a long debate. I will let members draw their own conclusions based on this. On the other side of the coin it is free promotion for dongles
October 29, 201411 yr My point is they are similar and it is double standards. If someone questioned dongles and sold neither I would not have a problem. However that is all I am going to say, not interested in getting into a long debate. I will let members draw their own conclusions based on this. On the other side of the coin it is free promotion for dongles If James was arguing his point on legality of use or something like that, then I'd 100% agree with you. But he's not. His concern is one based on product safety and the law that surrounds that to protect customers. So whilst you might think they are similar. In the eyes of the law they are very VERY different. One is product thats built and tested to be used as it is. The other is not. Supplying bikes with dongles fitted is very ropey ground for retailers and the industry because us and the other brands, and Bosch etc etc don't certify our bikes as safe to be used with them and they don't have CE stamps. This is why Trading Standards are taking a serious interest in it. Its got nothing to do with the bikes being illegal on or offroad or anything like this. Its about products not being safe, because they have not been tested or certified by the powers that be.
October 29, 201411 yr There are no quotes to back up the original story about 'London Police' and 'Trading Standards Institute' which appears to originate from abroad. I suspect it's garbage, which is not to say it couldn't happen. Someone on a 1,000W contraption may well wipe out a pedestrian and then we may see where the authorities stand. But that is a world away from me lollopping along on the Rose at 20mph or less.
October 29, 201411 yr ...and the rumours keep rolling along..... I wonder what the Police think of these threads about legality ? The whole forum provides them with an accurate insight into the wide variety of mindsets of eBikers. All of the ones I've been very occasionally "involved" with over 50 years have been basically quite reasonable. I'm inclined to think that it's unlikely that my "non CE stamped" DIY bikes won't suddenly get me a huge fine and a criminal record. But then again, I'm an old wrinkly riding along carefully with my hi-vis Sam Brown belt, riding very defensively and don't post youtube vids of myself blasting along the pavement at 25 mph....
October 29, 201411 yr Unless the police have a quick way of identifying if a bike is or isn't legal, like the way they use a speed gun to show a car is breaking the law, its unlikely they will pay much attention to an ebike unless its one involved in an accident
October 29, 201411 yr ...and the rumours keep rolling along..... I wonder what the Police think of these threads about legality ? The whole forum provides them with an accurate insight into the wide variety of mindsets of eBikers. All of the ones I've been very occasionally "involved" with over 50 years have been basically quite reasonable. I'm inclined to think that it's unlikely that my "non CE stamped" DIY bikes won't suddenly get me a huge fine and a criminal record. But then again, I'm an old wrinkly riding along carefully with my hi-vis Sam Brown belt, riding very defensively and don't post youtube vids of myself blasting along the pavement at 25 mph.... There always had to be that one who spoil things, you know what I mean? MS.
October 29, 201411 yr Someone on a 1,000W contraption may well wipe out a pedestrian and then we may see where the authorities stand. But that is a world away from me lollopping along on the Rose at 20mph or less. this is of course true, they are very different... however I'm afraid in the eyes of the law, and health and safety legislation, insurance etc, there is a line in the sand, and thats set. So you on your Rose with a dongle fitted is just as bad as a 1000w contraption - should you be involved in an accident, the implications are the same. You're on an illegal vehicle. Unless the police have a quick way of identifying if a bike is or isn't legal, like the way they use a speed gun to show a car is breaking the law, its unlikely they will pay much attention to an ebike unless its one involved in an accident key point.. here that you're 100% correct on. UNLESS YOUR INVOLVED IN AN ACCIDENT. So just as its possible to drive around in your car a tiny bit drunk at all times, the police aren't likely to catch you.... but if you are involved in an accident you will be at fault. Its the same riding an illegal bike. Chances of getting caught - pretty much zero... Implications of being involved in an accident...potentially massive. If you are in any doubt about the implications of the vehicle you are riding on the road, check with your insurance company. if you're prepared to take the risk, thats your opinion, but at least make sure you understand the risks you're taking. Many don't seem to.
October 29, 201411 yr +"One of the UK dealers" \well I wonder which one. Maybe the one who goes on about them all the time on here:( Not sure who you are refering to,but I can definitely say that it was not Kudos Cycles nor our London dealer,London Electric Bike Company. I must say that some years ago,when I first got involved in e-bikes I got fed up with being asked why I could not sell S pedelec type bikes when clearly they go past our shop very often. I did at that time ask Trading Standards to investigate,for it is unfair competition,they responded by insisting that such bikes needed to be clearly advertised as requiring moped registration,the advertising did get altered but lapses back when the heat dies down,it has not stopped such bikes being sold and used on the road and actually in the local park. I think new traders go through a loop of initially getting annoyed about these illegals but the police and trading standards seem to be luke warm about taking any action so gradually I have accepted that these illegals will exist until some nasty event happens....perhaps a 15 stone bloke on an illegal bike on a cycle track,travelling at 25 mph,hits someone or a child....then governments will have a knee jerk reaction,the police and trading standards will protect their posteriors(wanted to use another word here)......and the government will work out a way to take away the freedom and tax us all. I suspect that the reference to 'one of the UK dealers' is probably in the same category as 'informed sources',ie the author justifying his story. Actually the public has become wise to the 250 watt,15,5 mph limits and selling guaranteed legal bikes is now seen as positive marketing,it certainly balances with the fewer people who want to risk buying an illegal bike,or derestricting it or now very obvious ftting a dongle, the latter must be aware to the police by now. KudosDave Edited October 29, 201411 yr by Kudoscycles
October 29, 201411 yr My point is they are similar and it is double standards. If someone questioned dongles and sold neither I would not have a problem. However that is all I am going to say, not interested in getting into a long debate. I will let members draw their own conclusions based on this. On the other side of the coin it is free promotion for dongles It can't be good that the dongle causes the speedo to read at 50% of true speed,ok an experienced cyclist has an appreciation of speed without looking at the speedo,but these e-bikes are often bought by novice cyclists. Just an amusing aside....my daughter bought a Cooper S and took me for a ride in her new car,not wishing to seem a back seat driver,I was nervous about pointing out to her that 80 mph seemed a bit fast....Dad shut up I am only doing 45,she was looking at the big tacho not the speedo!!!! KudosDave
October 29, 201411 yr if someone causes an accident riding at 20mph and hitting a pedestrian, I personally can't see the difference between being assisted and not. If you cause an accident sufficiently grave that the authorities need to seize your bike for investigation, those consequences would presumably be about as serious, with or without dongle.
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.