Performance figures database

[Alan Quay]

On another forum I took part in (about boats) they had a performance database, to give people an idea about engine/hull combinations. While not fool proof, it was useful.

It was edited by one of the members, who was able to sift out the obvious BS claims.

Would something similar be of use here?

Or would it be full of data that could hang us as a community?

 

[trex]

it spells danger for manufacturers, little to gain, much to lose I reckon.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Mike,when I worked for Ford Motor Co I had a job in the atmospheric cell,that was a unit,massively constructed,that allowed testing of Ford product and it's competitors. The cell could simulate under controlled conditions,variations in pressure,temp,humidity etc.
The point I am making is that any comparison of electric bikes needs to have a similar controlled condition but also with the ability of changing terrain,wind speed with a standard size/weight rider-that would be a very expensive and complex facility.
Probably the best practical facility we have in the UK is the Redbridge Cycling centre circuit. Although I must admit not advertising well our test day this year,enough turned up to offer some feedback on various bikes.
Maybe we should have a simple questionnaire and collate the results.
There are so many ridiculous claims on range,I always get sceptical when I read 'our super-duper electric bike has a range up to 130 Kim's'.....it's those little words 'up to' that ring the alarm bells-like the shop sale that says 'up to 70 per cent off'.
The rule of thumb considering average terrain,average rider input,average wind seems to be 3 miles per Ah. A full speed throttle that turns the bike into a mini moped can halve that range,the energy has to come from somewhere.
KudosDave

 

[Alan Quay]

Yes, I was only talking about a questionnaire type thing, not a hyperbaric test facility.

It would have to be somewhat subjective.

Trex raises a good point though, with this site being sponsored by so many manufacturers, would it be too divisive?

Edit: oh, and agree Dave, some of the manufacturers are claiming stupid range. My own home built bikes will travel virtually unlimited distances, and use 0% battery if you switch them off, and have someone other than me ride 'em.

 

[halfer]

I once sketched out some ideas about something similar, accessible via the web. Not really for performance (which is based on too many variables to make sense of) but to capture the quality of components and to see what value for money each bike represents.

The idea came to me when I saw discussions here about a popular GBP2K+ bike having reputedly cheap front forks, and one member was thus insistent that it was a poor show for such an expensive bike.

I thought therefore it would be interesting to extend that, so anyone minded to could enter data about their bike, including the model numbers of the components (gear system, disk brands, etc), and a cost value for each, so that people could see whether a £1800 bike represents better value than another for £2200, for example.

The idea still appeals to me, but I don't know whether people would use it - it might be fine for bike geeks, but maybe most people buy based on looks and handling?

 

[Kudoscycles]

I once sketched out some ideas about something similar, accessible via the web. Not really for performance (which is based on too many variables to make sense of) but to capture the quality of components and to see what value for money each bike represents.

The idea came to me when I saw discussions here about a popular GBP2K+ bike having reputedly cheap front forks, and one member was thus insistent that it was a poor show for such an expensive bike.

I thought therefore it would be interesting to extend that, so anyone minded to could enter data about their bike, including the model numbers of the components (gear system, disk brands, etc), and a cost value for each, so that people could see whether a £1800 bike represents better value than another for £2200, for example.

The idea still appeals to me, but I don't know whether people would use it - it might be fine for bike geeks, but maybe most people buy based on looks and handling?

Halfer.....it's a good idea but so vulnerable to fiddling.....I rode a bike over in Holland that was identical to my Kudos Liberty bike....repeat not similar it was identical,from the same supplier,same battery,same motor....the Dutch bike would do 100kms,my bike would only do 30-35 miles!!!!!!
I offered a Duracell type challenge with a week's beers on the loser,he told me to go away,at least that was I think he said in Dutch!!!!
I see impressive graphs of climbing ability but strangely these figures never seem to work in practice.
It would be so easy for a manufacturer to input all sorts of data using their 'friends' with the result that the database would soon become heavily biased.
IMHO the road shows that we put together last year were the fairest way of everybody comparing bikes and in the real environment that they are being used,I just don't have enough personnel to put such events on every year.
The test tracks at cycle shows are really a waste of time,you need long hills,real roads,wind to effectively test these bikes.
Maybe I will try to put some shows together next year.
KudosDave

 

[EddiePJ]

Comparisons of component spec and bike weight, versus price is more important and of more interest to me. Then followed by dealer location, and warranty cover.

It can be quite an eye opener when you do the above. And one particular brand scores pretty badly in this respect.

I also don't buy into performance figures, and given that most leading brands use pretty much the same motors etc, the above suddenly becomes more important than hyped up performance figures.

 

[Jimod]

The only way for this database to work is, every company sends me two examples from their range. I will then test (play) on them and draw up a table. You'd all best hurry though, it's now July, winter will soon descend on Scotland.

In reality I don't think a performance or quality database would work. We're all different and we all want and like different things.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Jim,I see the queen don't like your Scottish whisky,they gave her a bottle and she smashed it down the side of that new boat!!!!!
Dave

 

[Jimod]

Jim,I see the queen don't like your Scottish whisky,they gave her a bottle and she smashed it down the side of that new boat!!!!!
Dave

Haha, ironically I don't like whisky either. The last bottle I had, I used it to light a charcoal BBQ.

I'm quite rare up here. I'm tea total and I've never worn a kilt.

 

[halfer]

Halfer.....it's a good idea but so vulnerable to fiddling.....I rode a bike over in Holland that was identical to my Kudos Liberty bike....repeat not similar it was identical,from the same supplier,same battery,same motor.

Yes, which is why my suggestion is only a bike-component database, and not battery/distance performance. As Eddie says, weight and warranty can be added too - these are all non-falsifiable, since it'd all be publicly viewable.

 

[jackhandy]

Jim,I see the queen don't like your Scottish whisky,they gave her a bottle and she smashed it down the side of that new boat!!!!!
Dave

His Nibbs didn't look too impressed at that point...
I reckon a lipreader would find his aside intwresting

 

[dmsims]

It's an interesting idea

I really really really struggle to see the difference between a £1K and £1.5 bike sometimes

 

[D8ve]

Err £500?

 

[trex]

It's an interesting idea

I really really really struggle to see the difference between a £1K and £1.5 bike sometimes

the shop's margin?

 

[flecc]

I really really really struggle to see the difference between a £1K and £1.5 bike sometimes

Marketing policy is invisible, so is perceived rather than seen.