pedelecs help chart

[carpetbagger]

It might helpful if anybody who has ridden the current crop of bikes create some sort of chart showin for example..
cost,battery price,distance,weight,hill climb ability,top speed etc
It would be easier for people to see at a glance the type of bike that may appeal.

When we talk about hill climbing ability what exactly,does that mean ?
what gradients are we talking about and is this assisted or lazy mode ?
Does anybody else have any views ?

 

[flecc]

This has been debated many times, but it's very problematic.

The most difficult element is that these are power assist, so the complete unknown of the human factor is included. You'd be surprised how wildly opinions vary on things like power, hill climbing and range.

For example, I've had many argue furiously that the worst hill climber of the lot is good on hills, and even two reviews saying the same, one even saying it broke their "mountain course" record!

Equally there are huge variations on claimed range, between 15 miles and 45 miles or more on the same bike for example.

In both cases, the better results are due to people including their own high cycling ability, the poorer results from those with low cycling ability due to unfitness etc. The rider weights come into it as well, this varying by 2 to 1 sometimes.

Reporting on car and motorcycle tests is simplicity itself in comparison.
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[stokepa31_mk2]

Hi Bagger

I agree with the idea but as Flecc says its very difficult to achieve. I think burncycles idea of A to B having a run off may be the best idea but some bikes will not be comparing apples with apples.

I will do a comparrison between the torq and the agattu when the latter arrives in my size although even that might not be easy as I intend to modify the gearing.

Regards
Paul

 

[carpetbagger]

I accept that there are a lot of variations but,just for example say somebody like you Flecc(not wishing to give you lots of work)were to test bikes over a set test route,it would give some sort of benchmark were riders could compare the different bikes.Same rider,same test route,similar input.It would be a lot better than riders from all over the country giving their views because as you say, there are too many variations.

 

[jac]

hi if you go to extra energy org web site you can get a direct comparison on electric bikes plus there is a big bike test on at the moment the results of which should be published soon

jim

 

[flecc]

I accept that there are a lot of variations but,just for example say somebody like you Flecc(not wishing to give you lots of work)were to test bikes over a set test route,it would give some sort of benchmark were riders could compare the different bikes.Same rider,same test route,similar input.It would be a lot better than riders from all over the country giving their views because as you say, there are too many variations.

Yes, I absolutely agree that only one rider results really have a chance, but even then it can be misleading.

For example, it was A to B who claimed the Torq 1 broke their mountain course record, when I've shown in fact that it is the weakest hill climber of all under power only, barely capable of a 6% slope, where most e-bikes easily manage 8 to 10%.

What led to that distorted A to B view is Davids high riding ability, he won the first year at Presteigne and was podium placed at the second, and has been recorded as reaching over 25 mph on the flat at Presteigne, something hardly any Torq riders can do.

Equally he recorded almost a 50 mile range on the Nano-Brompton's small battery, but was averaging over 16 mph, the motor only driving at up to 13 mph on average. So it was his endurance rather than the battery range reported.

The safest way is probably to have someone of my over 70 age doing it, on the basis that if they can, almost anyone can. Trouble is their funeral cortege might arrive before they'd ridden all the bikes, let alone reported all the results.
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[AndyB]

It might helpful if anybody who has ridden the current crop of bikes create some sort of chart showin for example..
cost,battery price,distance,weight,hill climb ability,top speed etc
It would be easier for people to see at a glance the type of bike that may appeal.

When we talk about hill climbing ability what exactly,does that mean ?
what gradients are we talking about and is this assisted or lazy mode ?
Does anybody else have any views ?

Hi, I'm new the the electric bike scene but considering one for my commute to work. I too would value such a chart and I'm sure I came across a useful table with some of this info on the atob website, but it seems to have disappeared now, does anyone know if it's been replaced somewhere else?

I think it was here:- Electric Bicycle & Tricycle Prices

 

[carpetbagger]

take a look at
Pedelecs&E-Bikes - Products, Vehicle Tests, BatteryTest, Manufacturers, Company Reports, Archive - ExtraEnergy.org
further test results in june,,,unfortunately it doesn't cover all bikes which are common in this forum ie wisper/torq/powabyke

 

[flecc]

Also the ExtraEnergy test had much that was criticised, in particular the 6% test hill, more a very gentle slope than a hill, not much of a test when every e-bike on the market can climb it without any bother, or even any pedal assistance.
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[frank9755]

It's a nice idea, but the more I learn about e-bikes, the more I realise that, as Flecc says, comparisons like this just can not be reliably made because performance depends on the rider much more than the bike.

Imagine a table comparing the performance of non-powered bikes, or running shoes!

 

[carpetbagger]

i still think we need some way of distinguishing what is a hill climber and on what gradient of hill....there are some significant hills where i live,,i have a Powabyke and i think its ok because i can now ride up hills that would have crucified me before,,but if i was to change bikes it is very difficult to choose.I would hate to spend say £1500 on a pro connect and find it wasn't significantly better than what i have...It seems a bit hit and miss as to whether you get the right bike...

 

[frank9755]

The best single statistic to get to judge that is peak motor output. Many e-bike sellers do not make this public. I suspect some do not actually know it for their own bikes!

 

[JohnInStockie]

The Kalkhoffs will climb any hill so long as you pedal too. They will give roughly the same assistance throughout the speed range upto 15mph (but that doesnt mean you will climb hills at 15mph), just like my Twist does. What they wont do is let you not pedal.

John

 

[flecc]

i still think we need some way of distinguishing what is a hill climber and on what gradient of hill....there are some significant hills where i live,,i have a Powabyke and i think its ok because i can now ride up hills that would have crucified me before,,but if i was to change bikes it is very difficult to choose.I would hate to spend say £1500 on a pro connect and find it wasn't significantly better than what i have...It seems a bit hit and miss as to whether you get the right bike...

Very broad outlines are possible. As John says, if it drives through the gears and there are several of those, it will climb anything, but often rather slowly.

With internally geared hub motors, they mostly fall into three groups.

Low powered, the 270 to 300 watt peak output Powacycles being notable here. This group are either moderate hill climbers and not fast, or a bit faster and poor on hills. The Sparta Ion M-gear and Koga Miyata are the latter

Medium powered with around 400/450 watts peak power. These are the bulk of the market and will generally handle a 10% hill with a touch of pedal assistance, but life gets progressively tougher as the gradient increases. You usually need to be very fit to attack a 20% (1 in 5) hill. The BionX 250 watt direct drive hub falls into this group.

High powered with from 500 to 700 watts peak power, notably from eZee, traditional Powabykes (not the new models expected soon it seems), Wisper in the 905se, and bikes with the standard Heinzmann motor. These have similar characters to the medium powered but tackle steeper hills in accordance with how much extra power they have. The BionX direct drive imported 350 watt illegal version belongs here.

For you it has to be the last group or the bikes that drive through the gears, notably those with the Panasonic motor unit. However, there is no substitute for a trial ride in suitable circumstances, rankings just cannot accurately suit individual requirements.
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[carpetbagger]

thanks Flecc thats a great help....it certainly narrows down the type of bike i should be looking at..if i change...