pedelecs are cheating

[barrycoll]

don't know whether anybody else subscribes to the CTC, but this month's mag, describes a C2C trip (Coasting Across England) taken on 2 hired Giant Twists, from a company called Saddle Skeddadle.
They did the 140 miles in 3 days, but were constantly running out of battery power, until one bike went terminal belly up.
It was then a case of cycling a 20kg+ bike, unpowered, to the next nights stop.

But the essence of the piece is that an e- assisted excercise is really cheating, although the final analysis is a bit confusing, as it says that
" I discovered that you can do longer rides on an electric bike, covering distances and climbs that some might find impractical, or impossible, without assistance, although I think that next time, I would take my usual road bike....and get a "few miles" in beforehand, to regain some fitness.

Not glowing pedelec recommendation, but possibly because the bikes were a bit rubbish, and/or at a certain age, a repeated 50 unpowered miles a day is quite do-able

if only!

 

[flecc]

Those Giant Twists were probably the hub motor models from circa 2008/9. They were rather poor, having a regen motor that didn't generate anything worthwhile but did have very high drag. They had twin pannier batteries, each one either 24 volt 9 Ah NiMh or 26 volt 10 Ah lithium.

Range on the lithium batteries was found by A to B to be about 42 miles, very poor for 520 Wh of capacity, and they criticised it's performance with the comment that it's slowness meant riding it risked dying with boredom.

So very much the wrong e-bikes for this sort of ride, especially if they were well used hire specimens with ageing batteries.

 

[RobF]

Some of the roadies in the CTC take themselves far too seriously, which is not so bad, but they also expect others to take them seriously as well.

In those circles, ebikes are regarded as cheating, even though no one is cheating anybody.

I've hung out in the CycleChat forum for a while, they are a reasonably friendly bunch.

Ebikes rarely get a mention, and when they do, there will be a sniping post about mopeds or some other nasty remark.

CycleChat has sub-forums for all manner of things, including folders and recumbents - but nothing for ebikes.

 

[RoadieRoger]

I hope that these people don`t have too much clout in shaping future cycling policies . They have made some unhelpful comments concerning the experiment with Motorcycles in Bus Lanes in the past . Let them continue to keep their heads in the sand .

 

[103Alex1]

They did the 140 miles in 3 days

Was that with the assistance of full lycra skinsuits ?

It was then a case of cycling a 20kg+ bike, unpowered, to the next nights stop.

... as many Tourers do. Interesting that some roadies can be quite haughty about their riding speeds and the distances they can take on. That's all very well on a featherweight carbon-fibre road bike with tyre surfaces like polished glass and minimalist everything ... but it sounds like if they were constantly running out of battery power over 45 mile stages, perhaps they were leaning on their batteries a bit more than some eBikers do. Perhaps they were "cheating" by using the assistance a tad more than they were expected to as capable roadies

it says that
" I discovered that you can do longer rides on an electric bike, covering distances and climbs that some might find impractical, or impossible, without assistance, although I think that next time, I would take my usual road bike....and get a "few miles" in beforehand, to regain some fitness.

Does the author say what his usual road bike actually is - and whether he typically has a support team take his luggage and kit ahead from stage to stage ? Joking aside, there is a big trade-off with the weight of an e-bike and it's very hard work riding heavy bikes unpowered or above assistance level across longer distances. Pretty sure that if they had taken another bike with a decent capacity and cut down on the power usage they might have reached more favourable conclusions.

 

[mike killay]

Frankly, I find these sort of articles totally irrelevant.
I am more than satisfied with my e-bike. It does what I want.
Although I will argue hammer and tongs with Eddieo over what is a good ebike, I care nothing for the opinion of a roadie.
It is rather like a dinghy sailor arguing with a canoeist.

 

[dmcgoldrick]

don't know whether anybody else subscribes to the CTC, but this month's mag, describes a C2C trip (Coasting Across England) taken on 2 hired Giant Twists, from a company called Saddle Skeddadle.
They did the 140 miles in 3 days, but were constantly running out of battery power, until one bike went terminal belly up.
It was then a case of cycling a 20kg+ bike, unpowered, to the next nights stop.

But the essence of the piece is that an e- assisted excercise is really cheating, although the final analysis is a bit confusing, as it says that
" I discovered that you can do longer rides on an electric bike, covering distances and climbs that some might find impractical, or impossible, without assistance, although I think that next time, I would take my usual road bike....and get a "few miles" in beforehand, to regain some fitness.

Not glowing pedelec recommendation, but possibly because the bikes were a bit rubbish, and/or at a certain age, a repeated 50 unpowered miles a day is quite do-able

if only!

the c2c, originally a walking route in the north of england, and modified to a cycle route has some serious hills to negotiate and on that terrain its no surprise that the battery could not make over 40 miles in one day. with more careful planning and research into charging possibilities at say 20 mile intervals to coincide with coffee/lunch stops then the route would be very enjoyable on an ebike, and easily achievable in 3 days by most people being just over 4 hours riding per day at 10mph average speed, leaving plenty of time for a long lunch and battery recharge mid day.
the hype on battery range claimed by the manufacturers and dealers does the cause no good at all and results in a negative review concerning range and reliability. battery range of for example, 40 mile on the flat will give about 25 mile in hilly terrain from my experience. carrying a spare battery is obviously an option , but as some of these are costing £500, probably not an option for many.
this is a route i have been thinking of attempting next year, probably on my converted moulton with a 14ah battery connected. rides like a normal bike even if battery were to run out.........will need to sort out some recharge spots at convenient intervals on the route...........

 

[funkylyn]

........will need to sort out some recharge spots at convenient intervals on the route...........

Well...when you do Dave please dont forget to get them to register with

CycleCharge | Charge on the move

Lynda

 

[johnc461165]

Why on earth do we bother about these mindless posts.

 

[eHomer]

I've only just found this forum, though I've been experimenting with electric bikes for 10 years now.

I'm way behind most of the posters on here with knowledge on current models, but I can chip in with a more general "Plebs" perception of electric bike usefulness.

My current 250w fully road legal conversion on a very lightweight full sus German aluminium bike is much more practical and enjoyable than previous acquisitions like a ghastly very early futuristic "looking" heavy Chinese bike with heavy lead acid cells and a very noisy high drag motor.

Now that Lithium power has enabled truly hybrid powered (human/electric) bikes, the prospect of running out of juice is not so daunting, and range is greatly increased anyway.

(I'm severely anti-Lycra anyway... )

 

[eddieo]

welcome ehomer!...details and pictures please..what donor bike have you used?

Bosch has compact charger.. 80% in 1.5hrs so very practicqal for touring. I can understand the reluctance on splashing out on an expensive spare battery which is hardly ever needed. If retailers could offer a spare battery hire service for their customers it would make buying from them more attractive and be easier on our pockets.....there are many ways of achieving this.

 

[eHomer]

details and pictures please..what donor bike have you used?

I uploaded an album about it in my profile Eddie (I was unsure of where to put it on here)...

eHomer's Album: DIY Alubike conversion

 

[eddieo]

that's pretty unusual to see a step through with full suspension!

 

[Willin']

If you contact Lorraine at Parkhead Station ( between Stanhope and Consett and 1440 ft above sea level) I am sure she will be pleased to let you recharge your battery en route as they were very interested in the cyclecharge scheme last year. It's a good B&B stop anyway with fantastic views - and it is pretty much all downhill from there to the coast. Failing that contact me and you can recharge at my house although I am only 20 odd miles from the finish anyway.

Parkhead Station :: The former station master's house

 

[Cyclezee]

Are non powered bicycles not guilty of cheating also, just like cars, buses, trains etc., etc?

Shouldn't we all be walking everywhere...............without shoes or other footwear as that could be construed as cheating.

 

[barrycoll]

sorry for sort of 'upsetting' a lot of forum folk with news from the 'other side' of the divide...

although cheating and ebikes have always gone hand in hand from the perspective of the non-ebiker, where they are viewed almost as if it was Oscar Pistorius "found out" to have fitted electric assist....

...bikes, and youth, and vigour have evolved as a inseperable mix, and an oldie on a Pinarello is buying into the cache of youthfulness, and attempting to deny anno domini (in his own mind anyway)
stick a motor in your front fork and you may as well have stuck it into a Zimmer, and in a way denying, or undermining the youthful image so painfully honed by the 8.9kg brigade (again, in their own minds that is)...so the way to deal with this is cry "Cheat", and caste these philistines into the wilderness

as it happens, there was no mention of the C2C riders own bikes, but as flecc says, the ebikes that were provided by the hire company were the worst bikes for the job, leaving a bad press, and a bad taste, and making ebiking as a concept, sort of damned with faint praise....the very worst sort!

but times move on, and e biking is seemingly now on a roll, so these knuckle draggers are no better than Canute, not realising that even Ferarris/Lambos/Astons etc no longer even have an option of a clutch pedal, not to mention the F1 brigade...if you will excuse my mixed metaphors
...so you are then, as an assisted biker, beyond the pale, and best be disowned by the cry of "cheat", and finally just left to wait for your next Meals on Wheels

anyway, the article did mention The Electric Bicycle Network as the way forward for on the move charging

not all bad then!!

 

[neptune]

@Barrycoll. I thought that was a well thought out and perceptive post. This "Immage" thing has a lot to answer for. In the words of Rabbie Burns,
"Oh wood some power the giftie gie us.
To see oursels as others see us."
I was reminded of this as I pedalled along National Cycle Route one this morning. There I was poddling along at my usual 10 MPH, when a young woman on skinny tyres came past me like a bat out of hell. For a moment I felt upset. Then I thought maybe when she is 67 like me, she will slow down a bit. There are plenty of people my age who can only ride a Zimmer Frame. And anyway, when you are riding for leisure, what is the hurry?
You can spend over a hundred grand on a fast car. But it will be slow when compared to the Space Shuttle. Let us all be thankful and proud about what we have and what we can do.

 

[jazper53]

I expect one also could define the non electric bike as giving mechanical assisted exercise which could also be regarded as cheating by some purists. The E-Bike is surely just a extension of that giving the rider the choice on the level of exercise he may wish to apply, if any, but i am qute happy to be a cheat, rather than burning myself out on some belief that no pain no gain.

 

[Scimitar]

but times move on, and e biking is seemingly now on a roll, so these knuckle draggers are no better than Canute,

I thought by this time it was well known that ** did what he did to show he wasn't in charge of the waves. ** was a better man than those in the CTC, by proper accounts.

 

[flecc]

I expect one also could define the non electric bike as giving mechanical assisted exercise which could also be regarded as cheating by some purists.

We use electricity when riding to assist us. Those who ride sophisticated ultra light unpowered bikes had the electricity used earlier to make the exotic materials incorporated in their steeds. Since that makes their riding easier as our e-bikes do for us, the outcome is the same. Both are either cheating or not cheating.