Panasonic 26Volt Questions

[Voltaire]

Hi From New Zealand.
Apologies, its a bit long, short version is it does not go.

I've belatedly taken an interest in E bikes and was offered a non running Panasonic 'Hurryer' cheap so thought I'd have a play.
It was a locker find apparently and came with flat tyres, partially wrapped up, flat battery and no charger.
Appeared to have been in storage for some years.
Google shows its really a Japan only model although the motor I found thru this site appears in various Euro bikes.
I pumped up the tyres, oiled the chain, gave it a wash and it looks much better.
Rode it around the block and although heavier than a normal bike rides nicely.
Looking up batteries they seem to have moved on from the original 7 AH one and I can't find any locally.
Having trained as an electrician in the past I thought I'd see if I could get it going to see if worth preceeding.
Thanks to this site I was able to determine which was the pos and neg on the battery connector and hooked up two Shorai batteries I had from my motorcycles giving 26 volts.
Initially looked promicing as the display lit up, althought the three batter indicator LED's droped back to the minimum almost immediately.
The three speed modes selected and the headlight worked.
With my two batteries in a backpack I went for a test ride.
Nothing.
Tried on the flat and up an incline as I did not know what to expect.
I disassembled the battery and its laminar type with a temp sensor, 8 other wires that I assume are BMS wires, the negitive and fused (?) positive.
Also established that I had the right Pos and Neg connections on my temp set up.
Further reading here indicated that the third terminal on the bike is a battery monitor and that the motor wont run without it connected and having to use OEM batteries.
I've been around electronics enought to know that fiddling is not a great idea so wondering if anyone had found this and overcome it?
Before I spend up on a battery I'd like to know that the bike actually goes first.

Thanks in advance
John
Auckland

 

[Nealh]

The likely only route is a lithium re- cell, so one needs to find a competent person or company to do the job. Any new cells will need spot welding.
In the UK we have at least one great company who can do this however you will have to search to see if anyone in NZ can do this.
The multiwire connections means there are comm's involved so the BMS/controller are carrying out handshaking.
flecc a revered knowledgeable member on here will have more insight with the system.

 

[flecc]

Yes, as Neale says, tbe battery cannot be substituted with any two wire one, since three of the five wire connections are crucial for the battery and controller to communicate. The other snag though is that the battery uses soft pouch cells as so cannot be readily recelled.

You can see the whole story on that battery on this one of my Panasonic pages

There is one escape route though, but possibly not practical in New Zealand. The earlier German Kalkhoff e-bikes also used these Panasonic units but soon were able to have their batteries made by German battery company BMZ. These may still be available online from Germany through ebay or Amazon. In addition the BMZ version used standard 18650 cells so theoretically can be recelled, though that may prove very difficult.

Do a search online for 26 volt Panasonic e-bike batteries and the BMZ versions may soon appear.

Here's a photo of the BMZ version's cell pack, showing how different it is from the Panasonic pouch cell pack shown on my web page:

 

[Voltaire]

The likely only route is a lithium re- cell, so one needs to find a competent person or company to do the job. Any new cells will need spot welding.
In the UK we have at least one great company who can do this however you will have to search to see if anyone in NZ can do this.
The multiwire connections means there are comm's involved so the BMS/controller are carrying out handshaking.
flecc a revered knowledgeable member on here will have more insight with the system.

Thanks for replying, and confirming that the third terminal is comms. I'll check out the local battery repackers first.

 

[Voltaire]

Thanks for replying, and confirming that the third terminal is comms. I'll check out the local battery repackers first.

Thanks Flecc, I found you pages when I was searching using the motor number. I found a new battery in Europe at 350 euros, plus I will need a charger and recent courier costs from the UK for lighter items have been over 50 quid. Not sure if they even courier Li ion batteries?
I'll explore the repack option first as these bikes or anything related were never sold here.

 

[Voltaire]

As an experiment I purchased 7 18650 batteries, two 4 way spring type holders, and a charger. I dismantled the Panasonic battery and drew up the reminations.
Assembled it all together and put it in the battery case. 3 leds came up on the battery test button but nothing on the controller.
Bypassed the battery inputs on the BMS board to the outputs and that brings up the display. either of the speed lights and the lowest of the three battery lights.
But its a slow 1 second blink. Test ride showed it was not working.
Might have to move to plan B: Noticed that directly above the motor is an unused crank mounting. Can get a 500 Watt Bafang mid mount but its about $1600 ( 800 Pounds).
Is it time to give up trying to get the bike to run on an alternative battery and move on?
thanks John