Not a Gtech specific thread but lets talk about dealership attitude.

[Beach Thorncombe]

I was dismayed to read a thread where the merits and detractions of the Gtech brand’s offerings was being hotly debated and, with incredulity, I browsed through comments from dealers on this site defensively ‘dissing’ many of the specifications, merits and integrity of that particular company’s machines.

The general inference I got was that the Gtech machine was way over priced, (it probably was at initial manufacture), was underspecified, (meagre 5 – 6ah battery?) … and that it only had one gear.

Its apparent range claims also came under scrutiny though, to be honest, a 16kg machine is, obviously, going to stick a big fat finger up to Newtons laws of gravity when compared to the average 20kg - 25kg ebike ... and reflect such laws of physics accordingly!

30 miles 'assisted', is easy on a 16kg machine - even with just a 5ah - 6ah battery.

There was also a view, from some, that, although the price had been ‘slashed’ to £995, it was still a machine, apparently, way too expensive for what it was.

And that’s the rub ...

As the debate developed, it was crystal clear that some dealers self interests were clouding any objective outlook that they might have cared to entertain. Other dealers honourably acknowledged that, perhaps, the concept of a super lightweight pedelec machine really could hold its own in the ebike market.

Money talks. BS walks!

Of all the comments I read, I was stunned to learn that some dealers claimed they had to see a £400 profit on a brand new ebike sale to stay in business!

Trex made such a comment with post #136* writing; “most specialist e-bike retailers need to make £400+ on a bike to keep their head above water”.

In a comment below that on the same page, anotherkiwi quoted the Trex comment with post #138, stating “About 510 € I would say and no shop overhead, just a web shop and enough space for assembly and stockage.” though she added a ‘big grin’ emoticon after the “About 510 € I would say” comment so, perhaps, she was joking?

£400 - £510 profit ... on one machine?

You guys are … No. I’ve edited out my actual view of your, so called, profit margins to keep myself from getting banned from this forum, though I’d laugh at the word specialist being used in what is (for you), a niche, low profile, consumer tech market.

What is so specialist about a bicycle with a motor, controller and throttle anyway? Especially when it is the same old, same old, technology.

Most of you dealers are, merely, the supplier of products that customers may wish to purchase and you should be LISTENING to the needs of customers, not DICTATING what you think they should be buying. (The comments of many dealers on that Gtech thread were doing exactly that).

Rather than dismissing a BRITISH mail order product like Gtech that actually hits the G-Spot for flat terrain city goers or folk delighting in riding a refreshingly light 16kg powered bicycle, perhaps dealers should take a leaf out of Nick Grey’s book, (Gtech’s founder), and start inventing or innovating products that they can “stack high and sell cheap”, (as Gtech does), rather than merely pottering in the cycle lanes of indifference, (or so called specialisation), that many pedelec dealers occupy.

I’m not privy to Nick’s business model but as an internationally acclaimed inventor and manufacturer myself, I admire the fact that he has had the balls to invest, massively, in marketing his uniquely different pedelec machine in the manner he has done so far.

So … Accepting that the, aforementioned, Gtech thread proved to be a watering hole where the world and its wife, (and so many dealers on this forum), chose to slag off a BRITISH company promoting a refreshingly innovative pedelec machine, I can sum things up like this.

Nick Grey, (founder of Gtech), is an innovator. An entrepreneur. A game changer.

Whereas … So many of you dealers on this forum are merely, China sourced, box shifters.

Let me say that again.

You are shop owners. You are sales people. You are customer care folk.

Just shifting product!

Obviously ... feel free to reply but, perhaps, check out what negativity you radiated on the original Gtech thread first ...

What I can say, as a site visitor, a viewer or potential customer is ...

Pedelecs, this website, is obviously a great place to air your products, (within the right forum page), and present a wonderful showcase of your company and its character. However, bitching about competitors and rivals OR shamelessly name dropping your own products at any or every opportunity ... is not a good look.

I've used the example of the aforementioned thread to raise these points but, honestly, many of you dealers, possibly, lose as many fans as you gain by just being too shameless and forceful in shoe horning or forcing your own products into every gap that presents itself.

Ironically, although I have previously, (and negatively), mentioned Trex's "£400 profit" comment prior, I'd cite Woosh, (the company), as a great example of getting the balance right in regards to presenting themselves online here at Pedelecs in a fair and balanced manner.

To finish.

This thread isn't really about a Gtech post or about Mr Grey's company or products. It isn't even about what ebike outdo's another ebike.

It's about the way you dealers and your dealerships come across online.

Some of you display a friendly, authoritative demeanour in your posts ... inspiring confidence and trust in you and your company.

Others?

Ha ha.

Let's just say some independant traders on here are funny ... and probably own a Reliant Robin!


* http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/new-gtech-ebike.21732/page-7

 

[Beach Thorncombe]

Try to resist opening up any Gtech versus whatever alternative model debate here.

Share how you, as a company or industry, feel you should present yourselves on public social website forums.

As a trader, does it frustrate you to see, less scrupulous, members banging on about their products outside of the areas and provisions laid out for them on this website?

Do you agree that it can look undignified for an official trader to be seen to be bitching about another company?

Do you, as a company, have a designated person to represent your business online ... OR do you just pitch in regardless?

Yeah. I'm a self opinionated so and so but I'm reflecting what I see ... and it isn't always pretty!

 

[Woosh]

Whereas … So many of you dealers on this forum are merely, China sourced, box shifters.

Beach, when you call one of us, you get to speak with someone who has thorough knowledge of the products we sell. That is a bit more than just box shifting.

 

[nemesis]

Mr Beach what have you been internationaly acclaimed for and invented,do enlighten us.

 

[Izzyekerslike]

Why do you feel that eBike retailers should have to operate in a different manner to all other retailers.

The dealers have pay to to be on the Pedelecs.co.uk forum which surely gives the them right to pedal their wares and try to gain a competitive edge over other retailers, as is normal in commerce. The consumers job is find their way through all the information presented and try to come to a decision.
And that's where the forum excels.

The fact that most dealers are prepared to spend a lot of time and effort helping out on all manner of questions (including Brexit) is to be highly commended.

I very much doubt your comments and accusations of unscrupulous and undignified dealers behaving badly will find any support on this forum.

 

[Emo Rider]

Why do you feel that eBike retailers should have to operate in a different manner to all other retailers.

The dealers have pay to to be on the Pedelecs.co.uk forum which surely gives the them right to pedal their wares and try to gain a competitive edge over other retailers, as is normal in commerce. The consumers job is find their way through all the information presented and try to come to a decision.
And that's where the forum excels.

The fact that most dealers are prepared to spend a lot of time and effort helping out on all manner of questions (including Brexit) is to be highly commended.

I very much doubt your comments and accusations of unscrupulous and undignified dealers behaving badly will find any support on this forum.

Or non dealers that work in the ebike market. And btw, the G Tech is under powered, over rated, mis sold, and too expensive for the spec in my personal opinion as an ebike technician. Combining this with zero face to face cutomer support, it is not a product that I would recommend.

 

[EddiePJ]

Or non dealers that work in the ebike market. And btw, the G Tech is under powered, over rated, mis sold, and too expensive for the spec in my personal opinion as an ebike technician. Combining this with zero face to face cutomer support, it is not a product that I would recommend.

But you also said that this worn out wreck of a bike was a good price, without even spotting it's catalogue of faults, all of which were apparent at a mere cursory glance.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/haibike-sduro-fullnine-29-2016-yamaha-400wh-emtb-frame-55cm-ebike-sold-thread-closed.26418/#post-357581

Read into that what you will, but your opinion as a self confessed "ebike technician" might not be worthy of note or value.

Just out of interest, which bike shop is it that you work for?

Juicy clearly see the Gtech as a perceived threat though, and even try to play this fact down by their reply. I note that they have also done nothing to rectify their own discrepancies.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/why-doesnt-pedelecs-do-more-e-bike-reviews.26610/#post-351481


Love or loathe the Gtech brand, they must have raised awareness to potentially many new eapc users, which can only be a good thing.




.

 

[Sarabee]

Where to start? I am not a bike expert or even half way there but I would like to make some observations.

Firstly, the mark up on bikes, £400 to £500 minimum. Anyone who has invested their money and time in a business deserves fair reward for supplying goods and services. The mark up is not necessarily profit but a contribution to overheads and working capital. Even if it is true profit, which I doubt, are ebike dealers actually selling so many bikes each day that it becomes an obscene profit?

If so, more companies would come in at entry level with plenty of room to undercut them.

I do agree that it is not professional to rubbish another company but raising points by judicious questioning is good practise if the dealer suspects the gtech ( or any other) will not in fact deliver the benefits the customer wants.


And there you are rubbishing other dealers as Chinese product bike shifters. Well I bought my Chinese import bike from one of these dealers ( not on here) who at the outset told me they were Chinese bikes. They import then upgrade them and market them. My needs were not extreme and the bike I chose does the job backed up by excellent customer service and reviews. I also looked at Juicy and Woosh but we are right out in the sticks so a long way from anywhere I could try one.

Nick Gray is a master of marketing. I haven't tried his bike but I do have his cord free hoover. I also have the hand held hoover, bought at the same time. I didn't bother to try the bike, as I said he is a master of marketing.

Not a dealer, not related to a dealer, will never be a dealer, no axe to grind.
I expect salespeople to sell, if they don't back their products, who will?

 

[flecc]

Trex made such a comment with post #136* writing; “most specialist e-bike retailers need to make £400+ on a bike to keep their head above water”.

£400 - £510 profit ... on one machine?

Gtech are making that sort of level of gross margin on their bulk bought Chinese sourced bike.

And they are online trading with large volumes and no shop costs.
.

 

[mike killay]

Not too sure why the OP decided to throw a wobbly and have a massive rant.
Doesn't seem to like dealers?
Who cares?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Gtech is a great bike if that's what you want. if it isn't, it isn't. Much of what has been said about it wasn't put into context. In the right context what was said could be true.Too many people on this forum don't put what they say into context or don't respond according to the context of what other people write.

£400 profit per ebike sale was probably a bit over-stated. I think £300 for a bike like the Gtech would be more realistic for a similar bike sold by a retailer. When the retailer is the distributer, the profit would be a lot higher.

 

[Woosh]

A bike starting life as a $500 box from China will usually be retailed for £999 in the shop.
That bike arrives in the importer warehouse costing the importer £413 *1.06 (bike + duty) + £15 (freight) + £90 (VAT) = £543. The retailer buys it at about £543 *1.2 + £25 (courier) = £676. That bike will usually retailed at £999. Don't think the dealer makes a lot out of it. His gross profit is £323. Credit card company or paypal will take £33, the VAT £54. He would have to offer discount on the demo bikes or sometimes pay the fees to cycle to work scheme (£100 for that bike), he has to pay for premises cost, about 5% of the value of the bike, £50. His profit is now down to £136. He has to pay wages to staff to look after the customer in the next two years. It's not a huge amount, not much left after two years.

 

[VictoryV]

Not too sure why the OP decided to throw a wobbly and have a massive rant.
Doesn't seem to like dealers?
Who cares?

Look at the time it was written - 3.41 am and 4.25 am!

 

[EddiePJ]

A bike starting life as a $500 box from China will usually be retailed for £999 in the shop.
That bike arrives in the importer warehouse costing the importer £413 *1.06 (bike + duty) + £15 (freight) + £90 (VAT) = £543. The retailer buys it at about £543 *1.2 + £25 (courier) = £676. That bike will usually retailed at £999. Don't think the dealer makes a lot out of it. His gross profit is £323. Credit card company or paypal will take £33, the VAT £54. He would have to offer discount on the demo bikes or sometimes pay the fees to cycle to work scheme (£100 for that bike), he has to pay for premises cost, about 5% of the value of the bike, £50. His profit is now down to £136. He has to pay wages to staff to look after the customer in the next two years. It's not a huge amount, not much left after two years.

And that doesn't include advertising costs, business rates, accountants fees etc.

 

[Crockers]

Surely it's a % profit not a sum.,the more expensive bikes must give more griss profit??

If using Gtech at £900 giving say £300 gross profit then wouldn't a £3000 bike have a £1000 gross profit in it?

 

[Sarabee]

Surely it's a % profit not a sum.,the more expensive bikes must give more griss profit??

If using Gtech at £900 giving say £300 gross profit then wouldn't a £3000 bike have a £1000 gross profit in it?

Possibly per bike but total sales over a year? That's always the choice, to sell many at a low price or far fewer at a higher spec and price.

 

[mike killay]

Perhaps he forgot to take his tablets?
Last time he told us he was living in a bubble.

 

[Croxden]

We do seem to have on here occasionally, someone with the ability to write reams of words. They just go on & on.

Are there so many or, as sometimes thought on here, the same person with a new identity?

 

[Emo Rider]

But you also said that this worn out wreck of a bike was a good price, without even spotting it's catalogue of faults, all of which were apparent at a mere cursory glance.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/haibike-sduro-fullnine-29-2016-yamaha-400wh-emtb-frame-55cm-ebike-sold-thread-closed.26418/#post-357581

Read into that what you will, but your opinion as a self confessed "ebike technician" might not be worthy of note or value.

Just out of interest, which bike shop is it that you work for?

Juicy clearly see the Gtech as a perceived threat though, and even try to play this fact down by their reply. I note that they have also done nothing to rectify their own discrepancies.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/why-doesnt-pedelecs-do-more-e-bike-reviews.26610/#post-351481


Love or loathe the Gtech brand, they must have raised awareness to potentially many new eapc users, which can only be a good thing.




.

Wow! Did we not get a good nights sleep? Somebody certainly is cranky today. As for the bike that was for sale, I still think it was a good price considering the upgrades done on the bike. I did not blow up the pictures to look at the rust on two of the bolts as you did however. I get bikes coming in for 6 week, after sale, complimentary service with rust on some places due to road salt. Cleaned off or not, make little difference to the value or performance of the bike. As for the grips, where they the original ones. It looks like there may have been two bikes involed in the final product. I was reacting to the info presented, seeing the bike up close and in person may have made for a different opinion. Point taken.

In that thread you made a taget of the seller and myself and you bring it up again to try and discredit my opinion. Why trouble yourself on my account. I am flattered, in a weird sort of way, that you think what I have say might carry so much weigth in this discussion. You have seen to make it your quest to smite me down because in "your opinion" that bike for sale was not worth the seller's price. Misguided superiority complex on your part perhaps?

Regardless, I am a trained ebike technician. I have Bosch, Trans X, Shimano Steps, Bafang, and Panasionic training and experience. Worked on regular bikes for over 35 years and automoblies and motorcycles for 20 on the side. 30 years as an electromech professionally. I have been in the ebike business for only four years and have lots more to learn. I have never built a kit bike which is why I leave those threads to the ones that have and do.

I have, however, seen the G Tech, looked at the online ads and watched the talking heads on the tv selling them. Not worth the price, will not get 30 miles of range anymore than my Haibike Trekking will ever see the 80 mile range claimed, and on and on. In your words, "I stand on my opinion", opinion!

Where I work is no one's busines, especially to someone with an attitude like yours. I like to be objective and share my knowledge here. I comment on bikes, give my opinion only if I have first hand knowledge, and will steer potential buyers toward bikes I do not sell if I believe they will be better served. I also freely give knowledge based advice and like helping people.
In other words, go back to bed and leave me alone. Oh, and have a nice day

 

[mike killay]

Let's face it, we are all wary of 'new' bikes coming on the market
.
Nor so long ago, various flash Harrys would get a container of cheap bikes from China and flog them off at huge profit.
Generally, the bikes were outdated or just weird.
They had failed to sell in China and were gathering dust in a warehouse.
They were sold off to the get rich quick merchants for peanuts. We even had some smart Alecs come on this forum to tell us that 'They knew an excellent product when they saw one.'
Generally they were pushing rubbish.
Unfortunately, Joe Public bought them, found out just how bad they were and assumed that they were representative of all ebikes.
Scattered around the UK are people who got their fingers burned when they bought these bikes, and they will be quite prepared to share their opinions with any friends who are thinking of getting an ebike.
This damages dealers, this damages enthusiasts who would like to see far more ebikes in use and therefore the possibility of upgraded facilities.
It is quite correct to challenge all new entrants to the market and point out their shortcomings as some did with the G Tech bike.