Noob conversion on a small saracen mantra

[Sutty86]

Looking to convert a bike I have had a while cost me £45 to say the least.
Everything works.
24 gears 3x8.
Shimano alievo cassette.
Front forks quite spongy going to see about locking out/repair.
26inch wheels
Hydraulic discs both sides
Bit the thing is it's a small frame.
I'm 5ft9 and I could do with a slightly bigger frame.
Bike in question is this
https://imgur.com/a/sxJUk
Free from rust.
Concerned about the frame size as would like a bottle type battery but I may struggle.

Looking for the easiest conversion as I'm Not mechanically gifted.
I have a tool box but I often break things before fixing.
But I am a tryer.

My weight is currently 110kg dropped 10kg few weeks back and looking to increase fitness and possibly commute to work.
I live in the dales and new commute will be 25mile around trip including hills.
But I have the facilities at work to recharge.

Also would like to use on canal as I live 100m away from Leeds and Iiverpool canal and hopefully tow my son who has mobility issues and cannot walk far or ride a bike.

I'm looking at a 250w front hub, with a nice lcd pedal assist panel.
Would like a throttle but believe this is now illegal post 2016.

I don't have a clue about amp thingys.
So please talk in simple terms.
I'm willing to learn
And budget is around 500.
Cheaper the better (I am a Yorkshire man)

I've wrote an introduction also in the relevant section.
Thank you

 

[cycling weakly]

Hi Sutty. I have a good Kona hardtail frame size medium which has two extra rivnuts in the downtube ready for a battery. I would sell it for £20 I am local to you at Nelson. PM me if interested.

Steve.

 

[Sutty86]

Hi Sutty. I have a good Kona hardtail frame size medium which has two extra rivnuts in the downtube ready for a battery. I would sell it for £20 I am local to you at Nelson. PM me if interested.

Steve.

Thanks for the offer I wouldn't know where to start doing it all together.
I'm useless

 

[Sutty86]

Bike is a saracen pro,

 

[DynatechFan]

Newb here too but will share my experience so far. I just bought a rear cassette hub kit from ebay for £400 with 10.4Ah battery, given your commute is longer than mine that battery would probably be too small - the clever folks on here will advise better than I. How steep are your hills? Off road or on?

For towing in particular I think a rear hub is much better than front hub - prices are similar. For the small frame you may end up going to a pannier frame battery, what internal frame dimensions are you working with?

The mechanical demands of fitting a kit your self are non-trivial, so you saying you tend to break stuff does worry a little. For any hub conversion mostly you are changing a wheel (obviously) (inc fitting new tyre and tube by hand - eg no tools, are you mechanical skills up to that?) and attaching a few bits to the bike. Then connecting electrical connectors and making it look neat. A rear hub means you have to swap out a cassette (pretty easy if you have a vice/workmate or big spanner) and possibly re-index your rear mech

 

[Sutty86]

Triangle is top horizontal bar is 16inch
Vertical bar is 10inch
Diag bar is 20 inch

Could also put a pack on a rear pannier if not enough room.
I have a few 12v battery's sla knocking around from my motorbike days also

 

[DynatechFan]

Assuming your measurements are the internal triangle dimensions that doesnt seem so small - but in your picture the internal dimensions looks quite tiny . . . this is the battery I have (the ad shows its dimensions) and it fits my triangle of 22" diagonal tube 15" seat tube 20" top tube with tonnes of space https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/36V10-4Ah-Lithium-ion-Battery-Electric-bicycle-Samsung-cell-Bottle-new-Black/222150097498?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

On your frame I also dont see any threaded bosses for a rack, either at the axle or on the frame behind the seatpost - if these are missing, esp lower ones then fitting a rack might be an issue?

 

[Sutty86]

Assuming your measurements are the internal triangle dimensions that doesnt seem so small - but in your picture the internal dimensions looks quite tiny . . . this is the battery I have (the ad shows its dimensions) and it fits my triangle of 22" diagonal tube 15" seat tube 20" top tube with tonnes of space https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/36V10-4Ah-Lithium-ion-Battery-Electric-bicycle-Samsung-cell-Bottle-new-Black/222150097498?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

On your frame I also dont see any threaded bosses for a rack, either at the axle or on the frame behind the seatpost - if these are missing, esp lower ones then fitting a rack might be an issue?

Yes internal dimensions, looks smaller than most bikes to be honest.
How are you finding your battery

 

[DynatechFan]

Alas the battery isn't fitted yet, it arrived with a damaged / bent bracket and the seller is sending me a new one. Because of the bottle bolt positions I also need to machine the fitting to get it on the bike where its needed - it looks nice

The 36V/10.4Ah capacity is pretty much the same capacity as my Merida e600 loan bike and that is good for two 12 mile hilly commutes before it gets to about 25/30% and I recharge. I tend to "push on" and try to hold 14-15mph so run on High all the time. Over time I expect the capacity to reduce and the novelty of fast commuting / overtaking other cyclists to fade a little (FWIW I weight 75kg, the bike & full panniers 25kg, my route has 700ft of climbing) . I bought this conversion battery with the expectation that it would still be good for a full days commute before recharge even in 2 or 3 years time. You might want a bigger battery ?

 

[cycling weakly]

Triangle is top horizontal bar is 16inch
Vertical bar is 10inch
Diag bar is 20 inch

Could also put a pack on a rear pannier if not enough room.
I have a few 12v battery's sla knocking around from my motorbike days also

I marked out a triangle of that size on paper & tried my HL battery on it. The battery is far too big. I think you will struggle to find a ready made battery that will fit in the triangle. If you are interested in my Kona Lanai Deluxe Frame I could swap the forks & bottom bracket over for you. The Kona has a rather long head tube, too long for any of the used forks that I have. You need to measure from the top of the fork crown to the top of the handlebar stem. It needs to be at least 215mm

Steve

 

[Sutty86]

Very kind of you, I may have to take you up on that offers,
Just been down halfrauds very nice lads who worked there's,took the vulcan out and the cheaper coyote edge, vulcan was the more powerful bike, struggled with the hills with my weight with the rear hub, I had to stand over the front forks to get a decent climb that was in the the most powerful setting.

I have seen the whoosh big bear as a front hub and made for people my statue.

Enjoyed the ride on the bikes but wish I could have slightly more power 21kmh it average 9k in around 30mins taking in hills.

Battery drained from 91percebt to 70 percent,
That was a 36v.
So possibly im looking at a 48v, 250/500w front hub.
I would benefit with a suspension sort of seat too.
And would love a throttle,
High tech fancy lcds don't really float my boat
Would like speed to be 20mph not the 15mph as my commute is all country road, no pedestrian etc.
I know legally this is now allowed but therotically

 

[Deleted member 4366]

So possibly im looking at a 48v, 250/500w front

Small low powered motors in front forks are OK. Any more than that and you need steel forks with strong drop-outs. Even then, the ride will never be as good as a rear motor.

 

[Sutty86]

Small low powered motors in front forks are OK. Any more than that and you need steel forks with strong drop-outs. Even then, the ride will never be as good as a rear motor.

Thank you for your input and I know your right, I've been doing lots of research and your normally the guy people turn to. So thanks.

I'm just want this to be simple as can be.
I would need to change a few things over to fit the rear hub.
The bikes main purpose will be commuting.
The route is from Skipton to Grassington a snakey up and down road,
I'd like to get there sweat free and obviously work much hardon the way home.
I'm totally good on the 250w motor after reading about and watching many videos, I'm pretty sure it will do,
Are fitting throttles an okay job to do, as today on the ride outs on the Halfords bikes I was just wishing I had a throttle.

That aside I've started collecting a few 18650 I had knocking around my home just to see how many I can come up with and just around my home I have 20 perfect cells, LG and Samsung, pulled from a broken gtech vac and a few power banks I have knocking around.

My mum has a stash of old ecigs which I may get a few more.

If I could d8veh and was half any good at fixing stuff I would attempt it.

I'm in no rush at the minute to buy stuff I just want to buy little things at a time and hopefully have a half decent bike in the spring.

Sorry again off the subject, would a 250w comfortably tow a single child trailer, my son has a disability and would love to come on little rides. He's 3 weighs around 3 stone trailer is a good few stone too.

Thanks again

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Don't waste your time and effort to make a battery out of recycled cells. You'll end up with an over-weight under-performing battery. You have to buy a lot of equipment to test the cells, then it takes a lot of time. It's a good exercise to learn about batteries, but that's about it. The only time you have a chance is when you have access to new faulty batteries so that you can re-use the good cells.

 

[Sutty86]

Yes I'm going to buy a battery just need to do some more looking to find best bang for budget.

 

[Sutty86]

Is bmsbattery.com a decent place to start buying a battery, why are the kits like on there.
I presume it's just a middle man site from AliExpress.
But easier to find stuff

 

[Nealh]

Best cheap good branded celled battery I have seen of just late is the elifebike battery shipped from Germany. £255 36v Panasonic PF cells 14.5ah.

 

[Nealh]

255 for PF 14.5ah cell battery was an error, should have read 240 delivered.