Nexus 8 or the new Nexus 5-E?

[ismangil]

I'm looking at Shimano Steps E6100 bikes - some specified Nexus 8, the newer ones sometimes now have Nexus 5E hub gears.

I will be riding in hilly Sheffield - is 8 gears always better than 5 gears?

Why did Shimano introduces 5 gear hubs along with their Steps E6100 system?

 

[Skeeter]

In the world of ordinary pedalos, the current fashion for MTBs is a small chain ring (34 teeth?) and an 11 (I hear there is a 12) ring cassette. The purpose is to provide a closer spread of ratio while using fewer parts so that wear is minimised, but strain on the rider is reduced...etc.

I would guess that the same is true of a motor, and if it results in a smoother power delivery for the rider then Shimano gets more kudos. Certainly the reviews sing its praises. Will it be a reliable unit? Who knows. Even the cheapest car has its charms so long as everything works.

 

[Ocsid]

A very interesting and relevant question that has got me doing a bit of online ferreting.

I am left thinking it is primary for two reasons, one being more rugged the other to facilite what is likely to be a growing requirement to have autochanging.

This IMO is a relevant link.
Here it claims to near double the torque handling ability of the earlier NexusC6000 the older 8 speeder, together with an extended live time.
Elsewhere I read it is suited for high road speeds but I suspect that attribute is only of interest in countries allowing high E bike speed than here.
Introducing an autochanging option into the range I see as an important feature in marketing terms as IMO that is something that will become increasingly sort after.

My Nexus 8 has been trouble free but I use it mechanically kindly and the bike maker has fitted a momentary power cut out operating during changes, so I suspect these have a weakness in that area that the new hub addresses.

For your hilly area application, the newer hubs claimed ability to change under much higher pedal loading, on the face of it must be a very positive attribute.

From what I read I would favour the newer technology.

 

[ismangil]

This IMO is a relevant link.
Here it claims to near double the torque handling ability of the earlier NexusC6000 the older 8 speeder, together with an extended live time.

From what I read I would favour the newer technology.

Thanks for the link! It's clearer now what they are trying to do.

Some 2021 bikes are now coming with Nexus 5E, such as Agattu 1.S from Kalkhoff. Pricing not outrageous...

 

[Ocsid]

Thanks for the link! It's clearer now what they are trying to do.

Some 2021 bikes are now coming with Nexus 5E, such as Agattu 1.S from Kalkhoff. Pricing not outrageous...

Are you sure the Kalkhoff Agatta 1.S has the new hub, this link states it has the Nexus 7?
IMO because of its internal clutch technology it makes it the least suitable of the Nexus range for E bike adoption.

Ours is the 2016 Agattu with Gates belt driven Nexus 8, but with the ill reputed Impluse two motor, it has been a great bike however. I am a big fan of the Gates belt drive and think with E-bikes it marries well with an IHG, offering that trace of compliance, and being maintenance and oil free.

 

[Muddyfox]

My Scott uses an Alfine Di2 8 speed internal hub. Was very dubious about it's capabilities as my Specialized Stump Jumper has 29 gears. The Alfine is perfect. Using 5th gear most of the time to comfortably pedal along at 16 to 18 mph. Never dropped below 3rd gear regardless of the incline.

 

[ismangil]

Kalkhoff has the most infuriating model names... I meant the Agattu 1.S Move Blx

 

[Ocsid]

Kalkhoff has the most infuriating model names... I meant the Agattu 1.S Move Blx

Okay, should be a lovely machine.

 

[ismangil]

Kalkhoff has the most infuriating model names... I meant the Agattu 1.S Move Blx

My Scott uses an Alfine Di2 8 speed internal hub.

Never dropped below 3rd gear regardless of the incline.

There you have it, no need for 8 if you only need 5!

Can't seem to fine hub gears on Scott City e-bikes range...

I am keeping an eye on Volt Infinity or Volt Axis both with Alfine 8 Di2

No one seems to have come out with Nexus 5E Di2 though...

 

[ismangil]

I am a big fan of the Gates belt drive and think with E-bikes it marries well with an IHG, offering that trace of compliance, and being maintenance and oil free.

Gates belt drive with Nexus 5 would be this BMC Alpenchallenge AMP City

 

[Ocsid]

Gates belt drive with Nexus 5 would be this BMC Alpenchallenge AMP City

A lot to like about it, it brings discs that other people rave about though my rims have been no area of concern. The BMC has a smaller battery, but possibly one more generally replaceable than the Kalkhoff specific one which is eye wateringly expensive if ever needed.
I prefer a city bike to have a more upright riding stance, very much a personal issue.
It is also of course a crossbar not a step through frame, though that puts metal where it should be if you can cope with it.
I note that puts its weight at a very desirable 18.1 kgs way lighter than our Agattu, a point that I would seriously consider as it influences the feel at low to stopped speeds and makes man handling easier.

It was also a bike from a somewhat higher price point, now offered at an attractive price and with it bringing that lovely Gates drive.

 

[Dewey]

I'm looking at Shimano Steps E6100 bikes - some specified Nexus 8, the newer ones sometimes now have Nexus 5E hub gears.

I will be riding in hilly Sheffield - is 8 gears always better than 5 gears?

Why did Shimano introduces 5 gear hubs along with their Steps E6100 system?

I use a Nexus 8 with a BBS01 and a gearsensor, I find it has a wide enough range for climbing hills. The new Nexus 5 start from a direct drive first gear. If you ride in a relatively flat area and have a powerful enough motor I'm sure it's fine but for Sheffield/Peak District hills I'd suggest the Nexus 8.

 

[ismangil]

I use a Nexus 8 with a BBS01 and a gearsensor, I find it has a wide enough range for climbing hills. The new Nexus 5 start from a direct drive first gear. If you ride in a relatively flat area and have a powerful enough motor I'm sure it's fine but for Sheffield/Peak District hills I'd suggest the Nexus 8.

That's the key I suppose - only use Nexus 5E with powerful motors!

 

[ismangil]

For 2021 BMC renamed the AMP City Two to Three - go figure.

As mentioned above this is a light bike so combination of Steps E6100 + Gates drive + Nexus 5E is probably powerful and practical enough, but it's not the ultimate easy ride step through frame...

This needs a test ride!

 

[georgehenry]

The Nexus 5E mentions a gear range of 263%.

For a bear with a little brain I wonder if someone could explain how this might compare with my current rear cassette which is a 12/36.

Is it as simple as dividing 36 by 12 to get 3 and is my cassette range 300%.

I am sure someone will explain, tiddly pom.

 

[RobF]

The Nexus 5E mentions a gear range of 263%.

For a bear with a little brain I wonder if someone could explain how this might compare with my current rear cassette which is a 12/36.

Is it as simple as dividing 36 by 12 to get 3 and is my cassette range 300%.

I am sure someone will explain, tiddly pom.

Gear range can be a weak point with hub gears, particularly those with fewer ratios.

The 263% from the Nexus 5 will be too narrow for a lot of riders.

At the other end of the scale you have a Rohloff - or a mountain triple MTB derailer gearset - with a range of about 500%.

I rarely use top gear on my Rohloff, but I wouldn't want a bike with a very much narrower range.

 

[Ocsid]

The Nexus 8 has a reported 3.09 range ratio, so wider than the new Nexus 5E;
Using our Agattu Nexus 8 bike I however, struggle to recall occasions I drop to a lower gear than #4 and live in a quite hilly area. The Nexus 8's range ratio is no different to a basic 34/11 cassette used with a single crank chain wheel.

The OP's stated interest in an Agattu 1.S Move rather implies there is not a need for a MTB with a very high range ratio.
These questions endorse my own feelings on bikes be they E or conventional, nothing is as revealing as getting a test ride on terrain like you intend using it on.

 

[georgehenry]

I have to agree about test rides, though as I am not intending to buy a bike at the moment, do not know how difficult it is in the current situation to test ride several bikes.

My first electric bike could have been a disaster as I used a ride to work scheme and could only buy through Evans and they only had one model I think at the time so I bought that, a Trek with a battery in the rear rack and a built in BionX motor.

I actually liked the system but am heavy and carry panniers and that combined with the rear rack battery and motor built in to a rather insubstantial back wheel almost immediately led to broken spokes.

Evans tried to fix it but the problem persisted.

That I had bought it through a ride to work scheme actually proved advantageous, as the company I worked for was a large one, and I was able to liaise with the person at my company who administered it, and she got the whole of the price of the bike refunded to me in cash including the cycle to work loan element, that I then paid off through my salary in the usual way over the next year.

This gave me a lump of cash to buy the next electric bike and meant it opened up the market for me and I could approach any bike shop I liked.

I went to the now discredited 50 cycles in their then small shop in Richmond and rode a number of bikes up the hill and into Richmond Park and back.

I was expecting to buy a Kalkhoff but actually bought a Oxygen Emate City that impressed me much more on the test ride, and still own, use and love it over nine years later.

The Kalkhoff's of that time were much liked and revered but I preferred the Oxygen.

Similarly when I decided to buy a crank drive mountain bike in 2015, I bought a Yamaha powered Haibike after attending a dealers demo day and riding a number of bikes and systems on proper single tracks in a hilly area and just preferred the Yamaha. The fact it was the cheapest one at the time had nothing to do with it!

I still love and am riding that bike, now in its sixth year and with 12,496 miles under its wheels.

I was however completely innocent about the way a crank drive bike can wear out a transmission when I bought it. I do however still love that bike and love its ability off road where a crank drive is the best system to have.

Incidentally I noticed this double chain ring hard tail mountain bike available for pre order in the Haibike line up and made a quick post about it for the wide gearing it potentially offers.

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/high-speed-commuter-and-off-road-fun.39038/

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dealer/Hard-Tail-eBikes/Haibike-sDuro-Hard-Seven-4.0-2020?sort=p.price&order=ASC

The thing about test rides is you go with your own preconceptions about your ideal bike and end up preferring something quite different.

As my story shows, if you get the bike that best suits you it is far more likely to go on impressing you and pass the hardest test of all, time.