New Woosh Sport CD battery issue?

[JohnCade]

I bought this bike only a few days ago and have ridden it three times on short shake down runs only. I've been using it set at maximum assist 5 for the moment to get used to cycling again. I've only gone a bit less than 10 miles each time and the battery indicator has been showing one light out when I get back. I put it on charge then and it has taken about four hours or so to charge up.

But today I went through the lanes near my house and back on an A road; not very hilly but some short steep hills which I used to have no trouble with when I had my last MB five years ago. The main road is a long fairly shallow climb for about two miles with a short downhill between, then leveling off and going down into a village after nearly a mile. About 10 miles into the ride I noticed a slight loss of power going up the last uphill before the run down to the village, and on the way down the power went completely.

The battery was showing just one light and the display was dead. I tried leaving it a minute or so but it lit the display up briefly before it died again. So I pedaled it without power most of the way up a hill which I used to go up easily in second gear on my old bike, and it was hard work with the weight of this one. Then after a bit I had a rest and tried the battery indicator again, and it was now showing two lights. So I rode it up the rest of the hill and down the other side to home at level 3 taking it easy.

When I got back all the lights except one were lit like the other times I ridden it about 10 miles. The brakes weren't binding, the tyres were at 65 psi, so what was going on? I put it on charge when I got back and the charger went green after just over two hours? Which doesn't seem very long.

Does it seem like a battery issue? A charger issue? Or did it cut out from an overload? Which seems unlikely given that it was going downhill at the time. It can't be just running out after 10 miles surely? It wasn't even that hilly where I went.

 

[John F]

I bought this bike only a few days ago and have ridden it three times on short shake down runs only. I've been using it set at maximum assist 5 for the moment to get used to cycling again. I've only gone a bit less than 10 miles each time and the battery indicator has been showing one light out when I get back. I put it on charge then and it has taken about four hours or so to charge up.

But today I went through the lanes near my house and back on an A road; not very hilly but some short steep hills which I used to have no trouble with when I had my last MB five years ago. The main road is a long fairly shallow climb for about two miles with a short downhill between, then leveling off and going down into a village after nearly a mile. About 10 miles into the ride I noticed a slight loss of power going up the last uphill before the run down to the village, and on the way down the power went completely.

The battery was showing just one light and the display was dead. I tried leaving it a minute or so but it lit the display up briefly before it died again. So I pedaled it without power most of the way up a hill which I used to go up easily in second gear on my old bike, and it was hard work with the weight of this one. Then after a bit I had a rest and tried the battery indicator again, and it was now showing two lights. So I rode it up the rest of the hill and down the other side to home at level 3 taking it easy.

When I got back all the lights except one were lit like the other times I ridden it about 10 miles. The brakes weren't binding, the tyres were at 65 psi, so what was going on? I put it on charge when I got back and the charger went green after just over two hours? Which doesn't seem very long.

Does it seem like a battery issue? A charger issue? Or did it cut out from an overload? Which seems unlikely given that it was going downhill at the time. It can't be just running out after 10 miles surely? It wasn't even that hilly where I went.

Certainly not - ring Woosh

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Sounds like a battery problem of some sort, or maybe a short-circuit somewhere, which took all the current.

 

[JohnCade]

Yes I will. But I wondered if anyone has any ideas? I have heard that new batteries can act oddly.... But is it possible that it can show all the signs of being dead and then recover to near full again five minutes later?

 

[JohnCade]

Sounds like a battery problem of some sort, or maybe a short-circuit somewhere, which took all the current.

Thanks. You mean in the battery as opposed to the external connections?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

There could be a shortin the controller, between the controller and battert or in the battery.

The low voltage from the battery will be because either something is drawing a massive current or something has gone wrong with the battery so that it can't provide the current. Faults like that are very unusual, especially as it seems to have cured itself. The normal causes would cut it off completely. You should also check your motor connectors in the controller compartment. Make sure that they're crimped nice and tight. A loose one could cause your problem. The controller is in that black box at the end of the battery.

 

[JohnCade]

Thanks. One of the things I noticed which I didn't mention above is that the wire from the bottom of the battery to presumably the controller was rubbing on the inside of the chain earlier in the ride. I pushed it out of the way and kept an eye on it, and it wasn't rubbing after. I secured it when I got back but I'll take a look at the connexions down there tomorrow.

Would like to be confident that it won't let me down with miles to go.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Did the chain wear through the insulation to expose the copper wires?

 

[JohnCade]

No I saw it before that. It just scuffed up the elbow connector or support a very little.

 

[trex]

the charger pumps out 2A, so 4 hours is roughly 8AH, 90% of the capacity of your bottle battery - practically the range you can do with this bike. For 10 miles, depending how hilly it was, expect 2 hours +
First, a quick observation about power consumption.
CD bikes can use a lot of battery because it's easy to change gear and keep the high speed, and the CD being very obliging, pumps as much power as it can but if it's running at near its maximum magnetic flux, the yield drops quickly, it will burn easily 20WH-25WH per mile.
Next, how to check the health of your battery.
The first light on the battery goes off when there is roughly 40% capacity left. It's time to head home and pedal leisurely.
The next light goes when there is roughly 20% left, turn down assist level to 1 and head home leisurely.
If you have one LED off on the battery meter (on the battery), expect 2.5 hours recharge time, two LEDs off, 3 - 3.5 hours.
Three LEDs off: expect 4 hours. If the charger goes green half an hour before you expect then ring Woosh - there is something wrong with your battery.

 

[JohnCade]

Thanks trex. It was showing one light out when I got back after just over 10 miles and took a little over two hours, maybe 2 and a quarter for the light to go out. I happened to be in the garage when it did so saw it. I'll have to pay more attention to it to time it properly

The other times I wasn't really paying attention so it may have stopped charging sooner. On those figures and using the max 5 mode I would have about maybe 18-20 miles using it to ride pretty fast in fairly hilly country. So I suppose that may well be right, and I'll have to turn it down. Which I was going to do anyway when I got my legs back.

Still doesn't explain why it cut out and I had a completely dead battery for a while, which then came back to life with all lights on except one though.

 

[trex]

the battery has internal thermistor that could be triggered or one of the cells may need 'running in' that may explain this odd incident.
All brand new batteries could do with 'running in' . This is because they are stored many months between manufacture and first use. When they are made, 50% charge is chemically loaded into the battery, after that, they get charged once to full before first use. The Lithium only moved once and one way before first run.
So, it would be good for the battery if you run it in deep cycles to circlulate the Lithium between the electrodes.
The battery will get stronger and stronger then reach 100% strength (capacity and maximum current) over 3-4 full deep cycles. For example: ride 15 miles on the flat before recharging, then 15 miles on easy hills before recharging then 20 miles on easy hills. Then the battery should be ready for anything.

 

[JohnCade]

That's interesting. From reading this forum I got the impression that modern batteries don't need to be run in anymore.

In a sense that is what I'm doing with these shorter circular runs anyway but I will try the 15 15 20 routine. Problem is finding 15 miles of flat which there ain't in these parts. So I suppose 15 miles at slow speed would have the same effect? Not even sure if it will go 20 miles without running out though....

Don't suppose the loss of power could be something as simple as the battery connexion on the front tube could it? I didn't think to check that at the time.

I really don't want to find myself having to ride this back too far if it happens again; and in my experience things like this don't just happen once.

 

[trex]

that's quite correct, the modern Lithium batteries do not need to be run in but when there is an odd event, it does not hurt to check that:

a) the capacity is still 100%. This is easy if you have a Watt meter fitted to your bike. Without it, you can use the 2A * charging time as a guide to how much capacity you have used, hence capacity available is at least that much.

b) the battery can take high discharge stress. This is where the run in is useful.

Experience shows that commuters have far less problem with their batteries than camping/caravanning riders who only use the bike one month in a year.
The reason: long storage can damage your battery because of formation of tiny cristals of Lithium oxide that bind to the electrodes when the Lithium is given time to settle in.
What you want to do is to reach deep into the electrodes by flattening the battery and dislodge any crystal that may have been formed during the months between manufacturing and first use.
Running in stirs the electrolyte and dissolves these cristals, making the Lithium more mobile thus reduces internal resistance and lowers voltage sag.

There is still a possibility that your battery has a fault. The run in process will show it up.

 

[JohnCade]

I tried the light run this afternoon by riding slowly around a chapel nearby and up and down a section of flat road. I didn't trust the fault not to reappear and go further since in my experience magic doesn't happen. Sure enough at about eight miles it stopped.

This was different than the last time since the battery was still showing all its lights and the display was powered. I tried wiggling the connections and brake lever in case the switch was stuck but no go. I'll ring Woosh tomorrow and see what they think. I did look at the controller under the battery but I didn't want to start dismantling it without asking them the best way to proceed first.

Bit unimpressed really. They say they don't do PDIs and expect you to set up the gears and brakes. Which I suppose is a sort of cheap and cheerful way of doing things, and no problem except for inexperienced cyclists. But a proper PDI might pick up an electrical fault like this too which can be a problem. I think they just take it out of a container, charge up the battery, and stick it in a box leaving the customer to discover if it's all working as it should.

 

[trex]

I think you have a dodgy battery John. They have 2 mechanics who only do PDIs but there is not much chance for a PDI to find out if the battery has a dodgy cell. Give them a call.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It can't be the battery because all the lights were still on the display.

 

[JohnCade]

As a matter of interest do I test the battery by just putting the points of my multimeter on each connector? I had to buy one to do a long range by email, diagnosis of a problem with a pre amp someone built for me a little while ago. But electronics is not really my strong suit.

From reading here is 41v what I'd expect from a new charged battery?

 

[trex]

that's correct, if you measure the voltage at the two terminals of the battery, you should see 41V after charging is finished.
I am curious though. D8veh has pointed out that if the LCD was still on after the bike stopped, then it could not be the battery.
After the bike stopped, did you manage to start it again? if, so, how did you manage to restart?

 

[JohnCade]

No after it stopped this time the battery seems okay with all lights on but there is no power to the motor. It looks like it was a bad connection or something shorting out after all. Strange that it happens at about the same mileage as the previous loss of battery, which did come back with the motor unaffected that time.

But this is the opposite symptom with the same cause no doubt.