Need Stronger wheel / spokes

[Neil5403]

I am very pleased with my setup on my Specialized Hybrid but I keep snapping the rear spokes !
I upgraded the spokes to Sapim strong and that helped a little but I am still regularly snapping spokes at the rear motor hub end. Is there a better, stronger spoke out there?
I am not a light rider at 115kgs and I am sure this setup would be perfect for a lighter rider.
The 32 spokes are laced with 1 cross pattern. Would 2 or 3 cross be stronger?
Thanks.

 

[Woosh]

don't worry about your weight.
check that all the spokes are evenly tensioned, no lose spokes.
check that the rim is trued.
check also the holes in the rim for sign of damage.
You could throw good money trying to replace spokes if the metal around the holes can't hold the spokes.

 

[Neil5403]

Thanks. Yes rim is trued and no damage. It is only a couple of months old. I check it every time I swap a spoke which is far too often ! I have felt the tension by hand and they all feel ok. May take the bike to a different bike shop to get them to have a look..

 

[Woosh]

what air pressure do you have in your rear tyre?
also, when you sit on the bike, do you hear any creaking noise from the spokes or rim?

 

[Blunderbuss]

When my LBS built my wheel the guy mentioned about needing a certain pattern to get the strength - i think it was a double crossover??

In case it helps please see the picture below.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I am very pleased with my setup on my Specialized Hybrid but I keep snapping the rear spokes !
I upgraded the spokes to Sapim strong and that helped a little but I am still regularly snapping spokes at the rear motor hub end. Is there a better, stronger spoke out there?
I am not a light rider at 115kgs and I am sure this setup would be perfect for a lighter rider.
The 32 spokes are laced with 1 cross pattern. Would 2 or 3 cross be stronger?
Thanks.

700C? I would prefer a 2 X pattern

 

[chris_n]

That wheel looks horrible, with that much bend where the spokes enter the nipple they can't possibly be tensioned correctly. They will constantly try to straighten as load is applied then released. When you sit on the bike the top spokes will straighten out leaving the bottom ones loose. As the wheel rotates they will then get jerked tight causing fatigue at the elbow and snapping.

 

[Nealh]

For a 119mm hub like a Q/Akiema or Yose power you can get away with 2x lace with larger hubs like Mxus/Bafang 180mm then 1x is it for a 26" rim, you can go a cross more with 28"/700c rims.
The issue is the spoke/ nipple angle at the rim and often any greater crosses leads to an entry angle issue, the end of the spoke has a noticeable bend in to the nipple and adds more stress.

Quality of the build is important and one builder to another can vary, high poke tension is bad for a wheel as is a loose or low tension build.
If spokes keeps going then it is best to start from scratch and have a complete rebuild.

 

[Nealh]

Chris and I have the same views and come to the same conclusion in our crossed posts.
Blunderbusses is a prime example of a bad build, maybe his LBS only does 3x. O.k on a normal 68mm bike hub but no good for large hub motors.
2 x max for nice spoke entry and stress free torsion.

4x is better then 3x, 3x better then 2x etc, etc.
But strength lies in how the spoke and nipple interact with each other and not how many crosses are possible given a certain dia hub/rim size.

 

[Blunderbuss]

I have not had a broken spoke, the wheel does not creak when i sit on the bike; it is used for offroad only and has frequent heavy impacts with no problem. If there had been problems then your opinion of a bad build could have been correct, and I would not have posted the information (I would have happily posted the facts that the build i had did not work). But calling this a "Prime example of a bad build" is a bit harsh!.

The info you guys share is really great, and i have benefited from this for which i am very grateful - but we all have feelings

 

[wheeliepete]

"Against good practice" is maybe a better way to describe your wheel BB, but hey, if it's working for you, what's the problem. It does mean or course that your spokes, nipples and rim are under more stress than they should be and if in the future you should have problems, you will know what has caused them. in the mean time, ride on and enjoy!

 

[Homebrewed]

Neil5403 I assume you are talking here about the Crosstrail fitted with Q128 48v 201 rpm motor. If so I think all the Q128 motors are 36 hole and not 32 as you say. Are you using 12g spokes or 14g. You say all spokes have broken near the hub and I wonder if 14g spokes have been used which are really too small for the hub spoke holes of a Q128. If using 14g then washers should be used under the spokes to spread the load around the hub spoke holes.
I think ready built wheels supplied by BMS Battery are laced with a single cross.

 

[Woosh]

most motor wheels use 13G (2.2mm) spokes, laced in 1-cross pattern.
They are very successful and can cope with 25st riders, why change?

 

[Neil5403]

Neil5403 I assume you are talking here about the Crosstrail fitted with Q128 48v 201 rpm motor. If so I think all the Q128 motors are 36 hole and not 32 as you say. Are you using 12g spokes or 14g. You say all spokes have broken near the hub and I wonder if 14g spokes have been used which are really too small for the hub spoke holes of a Q128. If using 14g then washers should be used under the spokes to spread the load around the hub spoke holes.
I think ready built wheels supplied by BMS Battery are laced with a single cross.

Yes to above. Yes to 36 hole.
I am using:
'13/14g Sapim Strong stainless spokes, single butted* BLACK spoke'
Tyre pressures at about 32psi.
I thought about washers, but as the holes in the hub are tapered, then I thought they may not be effective ?
I think I will get the wheel rebuilt as the rest of the setup is A1. I just wanted to make sure what to rebuild it with and what crossover etc.
Thanks.

 

[Blunderbuss]

Could any of you let me know if this is a single or double cross - its a 26" Yosepower 350W, (i measured the spokes at 2.2mm). I doubt it will be an issue as it is for a very light rider but i want to know what to look out for in the future, thanks.

 

[wheeliepete]

That's 2 cross, most small hub motors I've seen are laced that way.

 

[Blunderbuss]

Thank you and apologies if a link to this has already been shared but it is good newbie reading.

https://www.wheelfanatyk.com/blog/spoke-angle/