more electric folders

[Joe]

Have you noticed that ch white have now added to the electric ciao with electric versions of dahon mu, impulse, and glide?

what do you think of these? any idea what electric hubs they are using? or whether the rack will be stressed by the battery as well as luggage?

folders are certainly more versatile than full sized bikes, get top go on trains and be secure inside your workplace.

do these folders improve on a quando or offer something different do you think?

 

[mk1]

hi Joe
I own a non electric Dahon Speed with 20" wheels. They are good quality with stainless fixings SKS mudguards etc. They are not bad to ride, a bit more sturdy and less flexy than the Brompton. The only problem is they are pretty bulky when folded compared to the Brompton. I would imagine them to be quite heavy to lug around with the motor and batteries attached, especially on a busy train.

Martin

 

[Joe]

hi martin
so would you be tempted by the electric version. or do you have/intend to buy a full size electric bike?

 

[mk1]

hi martin
so would you be tempted by the electric version. or do you have/intend to buy a full size electric bike?

I originally got the Dahon to use on public transport, but generally now I just ride my full size bike everywhere. I am however tempted to get a Kalkhoff Pro Connect to use for shopping or when I am feeling lazy.
Folders are always going to be a compromise. It just depends on the type of riding you want to do and your location.
Martin

 

[flecc]

The Quando is only realistically a car boot folder, since it's a fairly large fold and at over 25 kilos a bit heavy for many. I've only known of one person commuting into Central London via a train with one.

Some of the Dahon and Brompton folder e-conversions seem better suited to public transport use, mainly because their weight can be more acceptable.

A to B, incorporating The Folder magazine, probably have the most experience and knowledge in this area, and they now favour the Brompton Nano. Prior to the launch of that, their vote went with the now discontinued Dahon Roo EL with the SPARC motor.
.

 

[Joe]

weight is definitely an issue with electric folders. so does anybody have any experience or opinions on the ch white conversions?

i have seen some reference to heinzmann kits causing the racks to break presumably from the battery weight and going over bumps?!

 

[flecc]

There's this expensive Panasonic motored one with Li-ion, I think by BikeTech, and only weighing 18 kilos all in:

UK agents Vita Electric.
.

 

[homemoz]

Dahon Mu P8 Conversion

Hi Jo,
I have the Dahon Mu P8 electric conversion from CH White. My view is that this is a really nice bike & decent conversion. There is a decent range of gears and the bike can be ridden with or without power assistance as there is minimal drag from the motor.

I have been using it to get to work which is about 6 miles each way which the bike does with ease. Last week, I had a longer journey of about 8 miles each way & this was fine (apart from getting soaked in the rain). Unlike the Quando, you do need to pedal, but this is what I wanted from an electric bike & didn't want to rely totally on the power assist.

The only criticisms I have around the battery, which is NIMH & I think a little heavy - although if you read this forum there is a strong case for better reliability over Lithium, so I guess its a trade off. The only other thing is the throttle which I do find awkward and have padded out with cycle tape. The bike is an e-bike rather that pedelec so there is no automatic power assist.

At the end of the day, you pays your money & takes your choice, as they say, but overall I'm very pleased with the purchase. There has also been excellent post purchase support from CH White & son.

 

[Joe]

hi homemoz
good to hear of your positive experience with ch white and the mu.
which i think is a particularly striking dahon. what i appreciate the most about the folding option is the ability to bring the bike into the secure indoors at work.

do you carry luggage as well as the battery on the rack? i wonder if this feels unstable and whether long term it will over stress the rack.

joe

 

[homemoz]

Dahon Mu P8 Conversion

Hi Joe,
Yes, I also bought the Trek bag from CH White & use it to carry bits and pieces to and from work. It doesn't seem to affect the stability at all, although does add a bit to the weight. I also use a Brompton & the Dahon feels more stable and less twitchy even with the weight of the conversion etc. I wouldn't use the Dahon to regularly fold up & carry around which is where the Brompton comes into its own, but for occasional transporting in the back of the car it's fine.

 

[rooel]

I have fitted Sram Sparc systems to the Dahon Speed P8 and the Speed Tr and can confirm that with or without electric assistance these are easy and comfortable to ride (no drag when pedalling or freewheeling, and steel frames). The overall weight with that system including a lithium battery in place of the NiMh is around 18kgs.

C H White do not use Sram Sparc for their conversions, and the motor looks like Nano, but their choice of Dahon frames etc is a sensible one.

 

[homemoz]

The CH White bikes use the specialbikes kit "www.specialbikes.at". This is rated at 180 watts and which is less that the Nano, but I would guess a higher power output than the SRAM Sparc - is this the case Rooel? It is also quite a lot cheaper than the Nano & lithium battery combination. As such it is a fair compromise with the added bonus of having minimal drag compared to some of the other hub motors (not the Nano which also has negligible drag).

Ideally, my choice of kit would have been the BionX but this was ruled out on price & lack of UK distributors as discussed on this forum. The SRAM Sparc also looks very useful and would have been fine for me, as I really only wanted some assistance with pedaling, so I got to work in a reasonably presentable state. The Sparc seems extremely hard to track down & I couldn't see the motor/battery units advertised anywhere on the internet. I assume that they are still available to buy with Halfords using them?

Anyway the Dahon Mu it is - and realistically speaking, unless someone comes up with the ideal folding bike - ultra-light, long range, good gear range gears, decent looking bike, reasonably cost etc. I agree with Rooel that Dahon conversions are still a good choice.

 

[Joe]

how do you find the sparc kit and the specialbikes kit regarding hill climbing?
accepting that both kits presume willing participants on inclines rather than out and out power like the quando.

 

[flecc]

The Sparc seems extremely hard to track down & I couldn't see the motor/battery units advertised anywhere on the internet. I assume that they are still available to buy with Halfords using them?

Fisher leisure are the UK agents, for supply through any bike dealer. here's the link for the 20", enter SRAM sparc in search to see the 26" and spare components:

Sparc motor
.

 

[frank9755]

The CH White bikes use the specialbikes kit "www.specialbikes.at". This is rated at 180 watts and which is less that the Nano.

specialbikes' kit is actually a Tongxin motor - as is the Nano. The Tongxin is rated at 180w

Frank

 

[rooel]

The CH White bikes use the specialbikes kit "www.specialbikes.at". This is rated at 180 watts and which is less that the Nano, but I would guess a higher power output than the SRAM Sparc - is this the case Rooel? .

The Sram Sparc system, uniquely, I believe, uses two motors, each rated at 100 watts nominal, making a total of 200 watts nominal. However the voltage (with NiMH) is 16.8 nominal against 24 for the Nano, etc.

Sram publish detailed diagrams for the Sparc system but little if anything on the theory behind the design and workings. I did however recently come across confirmation that at the Economy setting the current passes through the motors in series (cut-off speed 11mph), and at Full setting in parallel (cut-off speed 15mph) - a bit like the old tramcars: two motors in series for slowest speed, four in series for medium speed, two pairs in parallel for three-quarter speed, and all four in parallel for top speed (around 25 mph, possibly!).

However within these ranges the Sparc speed varies with pedal speed thanks to the addition of electronics - the pedelec system is not the common disc and sensor in and around the pedal cranks. It seems to depend on a feed back of rear sprocket speed via the motors to a circuit board inside the large hub. I have been unable to find anything resembling the traditional pedelec disc and sensor in there. It all certainly gives very smooth pedal control, with no need to hold on to a throttle all the time.

 

[homemoz]

I hadn't realised that the specialbike kit was based around Tongxin motors. There is a small amount of motor whine from with the motor on my Dahon (though not intrusive) whereas my understanding is that the Nano is completely silent. As a result I hadn't linked the two together.

In answer to Joe's question about hill climbing, I live on the edge of the Yorkshire Wolds and have used the bike on some moderate hills. So far, I have not needed to drop below 3rd gear and haven't worked up a sweat. Mainly, just steady pedaling which from my point of view is good.

The SRAM system seems quite sophisticated whereas the CH White set up is fairly basic i.e. motor, battery, controller, throttle and that's about it. I don't know what the difference in cost would be if you were to fit the SRAM to a bike of your choice - suppose it depends whether you have the experience to do it yourself.

The main difference in riding I would guess is in the pedelec vs throttle only system. I have to say that relying on the throttle without peddle assistance can be a hassle and may put some people off. On balance, it would have been good to have a choice. Having said that I still haven't seen an commercially available electric folder to suit my needs better in my price range.

Thanks to Rooel for posting the link to the SRAM system - will peruse it with interest.

 

[homemoz]

It seems they have widened the forks. These are steel on the Mu P8, so relatively easy to widen. There is a modification to one of the frame brackets to take the controller which is mounted fairly low down. I have been out on the bike in pouring rain over the last few weeks with no problems.

 

[homemoz]

The specialbikes system fitted to my Mu P8 is 24v and is throttle driven. There isn't a pedelec sensor which is a shame. I don't know whether this is a decision by CH Whites or that one doesn't come with the kit.
In principle, it should be possible to modify the steel front forks to take the motor. You will also need to make sure there is somewhere sensible to mount the controller. This was a problem on the Mu, hence the modified frame bracket.

 

[Leonardo]

Please, are you sure that the Specialbikes motor is the same as the Nano? Looking at pictures the Tongxin/Nano seems me smaller and with a brighter finish - but I can be wrong... Furthermore I remember that when I asked to the Nano-Motor people if it was possible to fit it on a Brompton with 24V they said me that it was not good at such voltage, but it seems that you are quite happy with the 24V Whites/Specialbikes motor on a bigger wheeled Dahon