mods (e.g. drop bars) for more aero ride position?

[coops]

Does anyone know how hard would it be to modify or change flat/riser handlebars (e.g. for drops) to allow a lower & more aerodynamic riding position, while using a 'thumb' throttle in that position?

Is it absolutely necessary to change the brake levers for drop bars as I've read, for example, and are there any other factors which might make this inadvisable, such as poorer handling as a result (I'd be looking at bar width of around?

If the brake levers could not be fixed on the top of the bars, couldn't they just be fixed on the drops, where they could be more quickly accessed when most necessary - at speed? A gear-shifter on the top bar might be less convenient though, so options for that are welcome.

I will ask at my local bike shop too if this looks possible, but wanted to ask here too in case there are ebike-specific issues involved (mines a Torq1) they might overlook, and because of the high standard of advice here.

I hope someone can advise as I'd like to give this a try, thanks.

Stuart.

 

[TomB]

If this helps, a more aero dynamic position than drops is possible, and is easier to acheve with flat bars - i.e. without replacing them...

They are called clip-on aero bars; a note of caution though, using the riding position of these bars takes a little extra bike handling skill.

It is also possibe to attach things that would normally be attached to handle bars to these kind of bars.

 

[Tiberius]

Stuart, Tom,

I've been thinking about the very same thing myself. I like drops, that's what I'm used to and most comfortable with. I would like something narrower than the normal straight bars. I've never tried the aero bars that Tom shows, though, and I suspect I'd have a lot of adjustment to do to get the steering right.

My last bike (non electric, that got stolen) had a neat arrangement with extra levers on the brakes so you could operate them from the dropped or the top position. The gear change was on the frame rather than the bars.

I've got both a thumb throttle and a twist throttle coming over from ebikes.ca for the new build, so I can do some experimentation.

I've been wondering about a combined brake/throttle - push to go, pull to stop.

Nick

 

[coops]

Thanks Tom,

Yes, I'd be rather nervous about the handling with those, even moreso with a 25kg bike! I suppose it would depend how often I can use them as to whether the increased aero over drops would benefit me - much of the time I'm on city roads where the aero bars might not be safe to use, but on more traffic-free routes with long stretches they might work well .

The ease of fitting them and option to attach other fittings to them is very functional, and keeping the existing bars offers versatility in use. They appear to cost more than replacement bars?!

I'm thinking about them though..

PS You might be interested in the possible benefits of this for range/speed for your commute.

Stuart.

 

[coops]

Hi Nick,

I had a 'racer' when I was younger which had drop bars & similar brakes - I found them very useful, especialy as I didn't really use the 'drop' position that much - seems its taken me till now to work out what thats for! I remember the main brake lever on the 'front' of the drops felt hard to reach & awkwardly positioned. It also had gear levers on the downtube - I was thinking about that when I posted actually - I'm not sure about going back to that, but it seems a sensible place for it when riding in a 'tuck' position.

I've gotten used to wider straight bars again and they do seem to offer better manouevrability, but I think could sacrifice some of that for narrower bars - I think I'd be looking at minimum 42cm wide if I changed the bars.

Just to avoid any confusion, when I said I use a 'thumb' throttle, I meant a shortened twist-grip type throttle (flecc's mod), but very much thumb-only operated, for convenience...

I'm still wondering how best to reposition or replace brakes/shifters etc. if I do change bars though...

Stuart.

 

[frank9755]

It certainly can be done. If I were say fitting drops to my Wisper, I would change the brakes for something like these, which work well with drop levers and allow mudguard clearance. I'd get an STI brake lever / shifter like this, thumb throttle, some drop bars and fix it all up.

Whether its a good idea depends on what is important to you and your riding style.

First, priorities: I see handlebar choice as a trade-off between:
1. comfort
2. aerodynamics / good body position for pedalling hard
3. image
Aero-bars are maximum 2 but very low on 1. Image is a matter of opinion, but they may look a little incoherent on an electric!
Drops are high on 1, giving alternative positions for different speeds and preferences. Also high on 2, but again may not look quite right on an electric
Flat bars are essentially high on image but low on the other two factors (for on-road cycling). I got rid of the flat bars on my old Powabyke and replaced with 'comfort' bars (old-fashioned angled bars, like those ones many people didn't like on the Kalkhoff on image grounds). Comfort bars would be high on comfort but low on the other two criteria.

Second, riding style:
By this I mean how hard you want to pedal - the harder you pedal, the more comfortable it is to shift your weight forward and have lower handlebars. If you are pedalling very hard, like a racing cyclist or time triallist, you can shift your weight forward without discomfort, because the reaction to the downward forces you are exerting on your pedals hold your body up, meaning that you are not putting all your wieght on your hands and arms. In fact, a sprinting racing cyclist with drop bars is actually pulling the bars up, not resting weight on them.
If you want to pootle along gently, putting little pressure on the pedals and letting the motor do most of the work, shifting your weight forward will be disastrous, causing serious pain in the hands, wrists and probably elsewhere.

Summing up, drops might be a reasonable idea if you want to pedal hard, for example on a Torq I or home-made flier, or if you just prefer them and are likely to ride with your hands on the hoods most of the time anyway, when they are comfortable.
It's hard to see aero-bars on an electric making sense because if you are pedalling hard enough to be able to use the aero-bars, you won't be needing the motor!
Flat bars are ok but not ideal for an on-road electric bike but, as they are fashionable, many/most electrics have them.
For most electric cyclists, comfort bars are the best option from a usability perspective, but they're not very trendy!

 

[Chris_Bike]

Hi Stuart,

I don't know what brakes you currently have on the bike, but you probably don't need to change them to use drops. As you have worked out, however, you will need to change your levers. STI levers like the ones Frank posted are very good, enabling you to change (derailleur) gear with the same lever.

Properly set up levers on drops should give you a number of riding positions, the most relaxed being "on the tops". which really means on the brake hoods (holding them between thumb and forefinger). This allows you to operate the brake (and gears) with the fingers. Many serious riders mount their levers quite high on the bends to give a comfortable position.

If you feel more comfortable with levers on the tops rather than the bends, these ( ATC: Crosstop Carbon Levers - Cane Creek - Road - Brakes ) can be user in series with traditional levers, giving two sets of brake levers (they are often used in cyclo cross). The ones I post above are carbon and the first I found on google. There are much cheaper Alu ones.

As to where your throttle goes?????? Sorry, no idea!

 

[flecc]

If you don't want to get too extreme and just want a lean forward to allow better air flow, the dodge I used on my Q bike can be useful, buy riser handlebars and mount them upside down. The ones I used shown below only had a small rise, but there are many available with more:

 

[frank9755]

The other easier idea of course is bar ends. There are lots of types available, some of which can give a more stretched out position.

Frank

 

[coops]

Many thanks for all the helpful & detailed replies

Frank & flecc,

I pedal a fair amount & when I'm just riding casually the riser bars are fine, but when I'm riding harder my instinct is to lean further forward & lower: I've tried adjusting the bars forward & slightly lower, but the bar width & hand position feels all wrong... so I think drops or similar might work better for me, especially when riding harder & faster, though I'll give your simpler option some thought flecc.

PS I thought about bar ends, but wasn't sure that it gave the right ride position, and no obvious place to fix a throttle to either that I can see... I'll do a proper search to see whats available & with enough stretch... how about wide-spaced aero bars (to replicate riding the 'hoods') with throttle & maybe brake-levers too attached! In a way bar-ends and aero bars seem quite similar in function if different in intended use.

Frank, Chris & Nick

My main concern is how much expense is necessary to do it... is it really necessary to change brakes (maybe not - they're Shimano V-brakes with Shimano Nexave levers & an in-line 'power modulator' SM-PM60, Chris), levers & shifter for example, aswell as the bars plus bar tape etc., its getting rather pricy... I've not come across those integrated brakes/shifter before and I can't even make out where the shifter is or how it works, but I'll look into that & pricing & see if its worth it, thanks.

I keep coming across references to diacompe 287 drop brake levers which pull more cable & can be used with V-brakes rather than requiring cantilever brakes? (Not sure of the difference to be honest - more reading...!).

I suppose it'd be worth doing it properly though, especially if it pays off.

Thanks for your efforts to explain the different brake positions Chris and probably the ones I used before weren't fitted in the best position for me: I think I see how they're meant to work now - they can be accessed from either the 'hoods' or the drop position? But it still looks more of a stretch to reach & pull the lever (which was the problem I had with them before!) from either position than with the 'riser' bar type levers I have now: they seem to be a compromise which works two ways, but not really easily in either?! I'll look into the levers on tops you suggest though - if they work like the 'dual-brake levers' I used to have then they could be very useful.

Is riding on the hoods the usual position and the drops used mainly for descents? The hood position resembles a shorter, wider 'aero bar' type stance I think? Gear shift mainly used from the hood position then?

Still can't see where the throttle goes either! A combined brake lever & shifter on one side & brake lever/throttle on the other would be good... need to work out where my hand position will be when I need it... the combined brake and throttle is starting to sound good Nick! The option for two separate throttles might help, but it would be neater to just use one.

I think I'll have to think some, work out the details (esp hand & throttle positions), consider the options & weigh up the costs, also look into flecc's idea and see how much forward lean I can take before spending a lot on a setup which might not work at all for me.

Thanks again for all the ideas,

Stuart.

 

[flecc]

For extroverts

Type 1

Type 2

who shop at SJS
.

 

[frank9755]

Stuart,

If I were you, I wouldn't bother changing the bars over. Nowadays its a lot of work to change handlebars on bikes, and as you point out, quite expensive. The most expensive item is the STIs and you would want them to get the full benefit from drops. Basically they are just like the old brakes you would have had on your racer years ago, but if you push the brake lever to the side, it changes gear down. There's then another lever, either tucked behind the first one or up at the top of it, and that changes up. Idea is you can change gear with no additional movement needed, so you change gear more often and are in the best gear more of the time (and wear out your gears quicker and buy new gears or a whole new bike!)

I think you'd get 80% of the benefit for 10% of the cost from putting some bar ends on that allow your hands to grip at a comfortable angle and perhaps point either forward or downward from the bars. When you've got a comfortable position, just move your existing controls around so they're near to where your hands are!

However, if you do want to switch to drops, or even those trekking bars (sounds like a healthy snack!) that Flecc posted which would also be a sensible idea - good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[Chris_Bike]

Many thanks for all the helpful & detailed replies

My main concern is how much expense is necessary to do it... is it really necessary to change brakes (maybe not - they're Shimano V-brakes with Shimano Nexave levers & an in-line 'power modulator' SM-PM60, Chris), levers & shifter for example, aswell as the bars plus bar tape etc., its getting rather pricy... I've not come across those integrated brakes/shifter before and I can't even make out where the shifter is or how it works, but I'll look into that & pricing & see if its worth it, thanks.

I keep coming across references to diacompe 287 drop brake levers which pull more cable & can be used with V-brakes rather than requiring cantilever brakes? (Not sure of the difference to be honest - more reading...!).

I suppose it'd be worth doing it properly though, especially if it pays off.

Thanks for your efforts to explain the different brake positions Chris and probably the ones I used before weren't fitted in the best position for me: I think I see how they're meant to work now - they can be accessed from either the 'hoods' or the drop position? But it still looks more of a stretch to reach & pull the lever (which was the problem I had with them before!) from either position than with the 'riser' bar type levers I have now: they seem to be a compromise which works two ways, but not really easily in either?! I'll look into the levers on tops you suggest though - if they work like the 'dual-brake levers' I used to have then they could be very useful.

Is riding on the hoods the usual position and the drops used mainly for descents? The hood position resembles a shorter, wider 'aero bar' type stance I think? Gear shift mainly used from the hood position then?

Stuart.

Riding on the hoods is more relaxed - will tend to be applied when in the bunch and not "on the rivet" - and always when climbing. The drops are used primarily when racing hard. How stretched the position is can be modified by the length of the extention (the bit that connects the forks to the bars).

You MAY have to change brakes when you change levers, but I would try it first. I am sure I have seen STI levers working with V brakes.

Despite being an ex-road racer. I like Flecc's option and use it on my Brompton. I find a major issue with many straight bars is that they are too wide for me.

Finally, if you look at STI levers (and I am assuming your shifter is Shimano) select the correct lever for the cassete (8 speed, 9 speed or 10 speed),

Good luck!

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

guilty.....

For extroverts

Type 1

Type 2

who shop at SJS
.

yep, guilty,

love these bars, offering at least five riding positions, for getting down to it, pulling up hills, streamlining, small profile, plus they help handling the bike even whilst not actually riding it, brake lever extensions help useability. gear & throttle controls very centered, excellent all round control. lots of extra room for mounting 'stuff' great grip all round and very comfortable with 'grab-on' rubber covering.

these ones are £15 + £5 for grab-on, they can also be used upside down for a slight drop handle and they still look just as good.

 

[flecc]

That looks good beeps, compact yet fully equipped and plenty of riding position options.
.

 

[chess]

flat bars v drops

one other, and cheap, thing you can try to gain a narrower riding position is to slide the grips inwards about an inch or two on flat bars (old value measures) and add the bar ends mentioned; although I find these are useful in only two instances; 1 when upending the bike they protect the 'stuff' now attached to the handlebars and 2 when pulling hard up a hill.
chess

ps I have ordered and expect to get my electric bike in a couple of days-a carrera spark. Look forward to it.

 

[coops]

Sorry for the belated reply and thanks everyone for the extra advice but my minds still boggling at the array of options, while trying to work out my requirements... but those bars look like a work of art, beeps! They look very much like the Modolo Yuma Traveller Multi position Hybrid bars from sjs - 30 pounds there, where did you get them for 15? and whats a grab-on?!

I can make out some of the controls like the dual brake levers and a short twist grip throttle but the rest I can't work out - is your gear shifter a twist grip too? And the mirror looks like a cateye but with non-standard fixing? Good work anyway . When you say upside-down, do you mean with the bar-ends (where your controls are) further forward and above the bar clamp level i.e. as if rotated forward a half turn? Or rotated downwards instead...? If I could set them up with controls (near the ends, as you have them) available in the 'forward' position, forearms resting on the rearward part, which would also serve as a grip for upright riding, they might do the job.

Essentially I would like to be able to ride in at least two positions - standard upright-ish and a lower profile, more aero position, and to be able to access brakes, gears and throttle from both with minimum change of hand position while riding, but especially for the more aero position - It'd be good to have brakes accessible from multiple positions for safety though.

The goal is to find a setup which allows the different ride positions with minimal costs & changes to controls - I'm starting to think drops might be overdoing it a bit, and agree with Frank that other options might work as well or better & maybe for less, though bar-ends alone pose more of a problem for easily accessing controls while using them, and seem to offer a more limited, less comfortable low-profile position... I like the idea for narrowing the bars chess, thanks . The width of the bars is ok for upright riding, but feel too wide when crouched forward

It looks to be between 'butterfly'/trekking bars of the right shape, or adjust the bars I have and/or add bar-ends, or spaced-out aero bars for more forward reach and fixing throttle/brakes to, though those look more costly than new bars...

Still working it all out...

Stuart.

 

[essexman]

A note on drops or aero bars. For these to work, you have to be able to achieve 'a tuck', so that the air flows over you back rather than into your front. If your handle bars are higher than your saddle, this is virtually impossible. Look at the geometry of racers and then look at the geometry of the bike you have now.

Another point to note. You can get wide touring\city drop bars, they tend to have exagerated brake hoods. These mean you can do all of these:
-Ride it down on the drops in a tuck
-Pull through the drops for maximum power
-Sit up on the tops
-Ride on the brake hoods (which is just like riding on bar ends of a flat bar).

If yoru thinking of getting drops then i'd recomend this type. It wont go like your old racer but it'll really open your options.

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

Butterfly Bars

Sorry for the belated reply and thanks everyone for the extra advice but my minds still boggling at the array of options, while trying to work out my requirements... but those bars look like a work of art, beeps! They look very much like the Modolo Yuma Traveller Multi position Hybrid bars from sjs - 30 pounds there, where did you get them for 15? and whats a grab-on?!

I can make out some of the controls like the dual brake levers and a short twist grip throttle but the rest I can't work out - is your gear shifter a twist grip too? And the mirror looks like a cateye but with non-standard fixing? Good work anyway . When you say upside-down, do you mean with the bar-ends (where your controls are) further forward and above the bar clamp level i.e. as if rotated forward a half turn? Or rotated downwards instead...? If I could set them up with controls (near the ends, as you have them) available in the 'forward' position, forearms resting on the rearward part, which would also serve as a grip for upright riding, they might do the job.

Still working it all out...

Stuart.

Hi Stuart,

you won't go far wrong with the butterfly bars, they are supremely comfortable, there are several variants, i have the narrowest,

see them on eBay here:

black alloy multiposition bike/cycle handlebars on eBay, also Stems, Handlebars Headsets, Bike Parts, Cycling, Sporting Goods (end time 27-Jun-08 00:34:09 BST)

if you move fast there are a pair on special offer 'Buy it Now' only £7

black steel multi position bike/cycle handlebars on eBay, also Stems, Handlebars Headsets, Bike Parts, Cycling, Sporting Goods (end time 27-Jun-08 13:56:10 BST)

Grab-On is the black foam rubber bar grip, it increases the tube diameter of the bar & makes it easier & more comfortable to hold, it goes almost all the way round the bar & means you can hold the bars anywhere, it also takes all the sting and vibration out of the bars & protects against knocks or impacts, see them here:

black raleigh road bike handlebar foam/grip/sleeve on eBay, also Stems, Handlebars Headsets, Bike Parts, Cycling, Sporting Goods (end time 21-Jun-08 15:29:33 BST)

Yes that is a CatEye mirror, modified to bolt onto a reflector clip.

here's another photo from the front, you can see the throttle & gear shifts, with the little fingertip tab controls, the two black brackets on either side of the headset are for CatEye halogen lamps.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3004/2594183915_b151ce7bfd.jpg?v=0

Yes you can rotate them forward 180, and have the gap to the front europeans tend to prefer this position, or, the bars can be flipped so the wings are lower than the headset, i tend to ride with my hands on the outside of the wings hence the brake ext'n levers, the most comfortable position is leaning forward to the top of the bar, dynamics improve and you can get more power to the pedal because of the angle,

hope this helps,

 

[Tiberius]

Hi Beeps,

Ooh, I'm really beginning to like this idea too. Are those the combined brake and gear levers on there?

Nick