Mix and match components help sorted for a build

[Baz the balloon man]

Hi

looking for some advise on a bit of mix match kits that I have left over .

I am converting a classic Giant road bike test stage photo attached.

I have a new 250W YOSE motor that I know works as t will work with the YOSE controller.

But I have a KT Controller and the KT LCD 4 from Top bike.

The Battery is Yose 36v Frog type 10 AH

The pas is one of the YOSE ones photos attached.

kT thumb throttle.

I have it sort of working ie it turned the motor but some thing is wrong it’s making a strange noise sort of strained and not full power .

I have been looking at the advanced settings in the KT screen but do not understand fully what they all do .

But the main question on here is is this set up going to be compatible by fine tuning in the settings.

Second option without buying the YOSE bits that are missing is I bought a brand new G Tech motor and rim on e bay because it was vey cheap at 50 quid it’s the one in the photoI am just about to see what happens with the GTech one same set up any thoughts on if this will work or not ?



CHEERS

BAZ

 

[saneagle]

First of all, make sure that both 9-pin connectors are in all the way to the line. If it's not that you either have the wrong phase angle in the settings or you have the wrong connection sequence on your hall and phase wires, which will be a problem to sort out if you have sealed connectors at both ends. I always advise to get a controller with block connectors.

When your motor is running like that, it's drawing very high current, so don't do it for any length of time and try to keep power low until you have it running smoothly, otherwise you'll be looking for a new controller and/or possibly a new motor.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Ok thanks.

Phase angle in the settings ?

Can I sort this in the KT LCD screen ? I have downloaded the Full PDF manual.

I am sure the motor is ok as I tested it when I bought the kit it was left over from the Vulcan build When I used the Suntours and YOSE kit together .

A Drawl like sound is exactly what it sounds like. I have not run it like this just a few seconds.

Yose have said that KT controller is now not compatible with there motor I think this is what they meant but they actually said battery but I think they meant controller if that makes sense ?

I still have a Yusi controller that I can adapt to fit I may try that next.

there are a lot of settings in the KT controller!.

Have you ever tried a Gtech motor with different components?

cheers

Baz

 

[saneagle]

Ok thanks.

Phase angle in the settings ?

Can I sort this in the KT LCD screen ? I have downloaded the Full PDF manual.

I am sure the motor is ok as I tested it when I bought the kit it was left over from the Vulcan build When I used the Suntours and YOSE kit together .

A Drawl like sound is exactly what it sounds like. I have not run it like this just a few seconds.

Yose have said that KT controller is now not compatible with there motor I think this is what they meant but they actually said battery but I think they meant controller if that makes sense ?

I still have a Yusi controller that I can adapt to fit I may try that next.

there are a lot of settings in the KT controller!.

Have you ever tried a Gtech motor with different components?

cheers

Baz

The setting is the one for phase angle 60deg or 120deg. I don't have the manual handy, so I can't tell you which parameter, but ifyou look at your manual, it can't be hard to find.

I reckon it's the connection sequence anyway. You have to go through all the combinations until you find one that works. You'd have to make an adapter cable with male and female connectors to go between your motor connector. There are some tools and charts here that might help:

Testing BLDC motor's Phase Wiring - Hall Sensors and Wiring. - Electricbike.com Ebike Forum

Testing electrical components of a typical hub motor with a digital multi meter. First take a few minuets and look over the wiring going into the motor for cuts, scrapes, missing insulation and other wiring issues or poor connections that should be resolved first. Smell for evidence of...

electricbike.com

There's a useful chart in this link:

Redirect Notice

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Thanks for the links.
I can not find Phase angle in the settings the down load from top bike is https://www.topbikekit.com/LCD4 display.pdf that I am using.

I have been going through all 3 sections and so far have got the motor working the drawling sound has gone I think !
But it still seems a bit loud compared to when I ran it on the YOSE controller.
Can we post sound on here ?

could we go through some of the advanced settings the P and C settings that are a bit hard to understand for non trained people Or has this been done in previous forums chats ?
Baz

 

[Nealh]

List your P & C's so we can see the current set up.
Which Yose hub do you have , Akm 95 ?
If it is the AKM 95 then the P1 needs to be set for about 160 for correct running.

C2 is you phase sequence option, value 0 always works straight out of the box for all my hubs but you may have to try all 8 settings breifly to see if any one makes a difference.

 

[Nealh]

As d8veh has said do make sure the motor Julet connection is 100% pushed to the hilt where the lateral embossed line is , sometimes even 1mm is enough to ensure connection is intimttent and cause the rough running sound.

 

[Nealh]

Ensure P2 /1 is set for current control.
C1 PAS set up will be value 5 ,6 or 7, one will have to see which works the best.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

The YOSE motor is AKM 2 please see photo attached.

The Julet connection are all good and tight although these pre made looms are very long and untidy.

Frame wire fishing will be my next hobby

Also Thought I would try the Gtech motor on the same KT controller it works ok initial test .
Although the new tyre does not fit on the 700C Specialzed . I have had to change the carbon belt cog again photo attached.

But sticking with Yose and KT set up I will list my current settings next post.
And do as Nealh has instructed.

Cheers everyone

 

[saneagle]

Thanks for the links.
I can not find Phase angle in the settings the down load from top bike is https://www.topbikekit.com/LCD4 display.pdf that I am using.

I have been going through all 3 sections and so far have got the motor working the drawling sound has gone I think !
But it still seems a bit loud compared to when I ran it on the YOSE controller.
Can we post sound on here ?

could we go through some of the advanced settings the P and C settings that are a bit hard to understand for non trained people Or has this been done in previous forums chats ?
Baz

It's C2.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

All the current settings are KT Set up YOSE motor are listed on the attached photo.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

It's C2.

C2 is at 0 at the moment what do you suggest I set it too ?

 

[saneagle]

All the current settings are KT Set up YOSE motor are listed on the attached photo.

That's a right mess. Who set it up like that?
P2 should be 1 or 6, depending on your motor's number of speed sensor magnets. Try 1 first, and if the speed shown is too high (6x), set it to 6.
P3 should be 1 to get the current control, which is the whole point of these controllers
P4 should be 1 for legal throttle
P5 is a bit low. 15 would be better, though it's only for the battery charge display damping.
C2 should probably be zero. I'll come back to that.
C4 should be 3 to go with P4=1 so that you get a legal throttle
C7 should be zero so that the cruise won't engage. It's dangerous.
C8 should be zero as you have no temperature sensor
C11 should be zero
C12 should be 4 or higher to get a suitable voltage cut-off if you care about your battery
C13 should be zero if you don't have a direct drive motor.
C14 is optional, but a value of 2 might be better.

With the LCD4, there should be "L" parameters as well. This might be where your problem is. L3 is for dual mode controllers that can work with or without hall sensors. L3=0 forces sensorless mode. L3=1 lets the controller figure out your hall and phase wire sequence. Press the buttons again wafter C15 to see if you have the L parameters. If you do, make sure you have L3=1.

If you don't have the L parameters, none of the other settings are likely to solve your problem, but it would be worth trying C2=1. Also, different values of P1 can affect motor smoothness.

If none of that solves your problem, you have to sort out the phase and hall connection sequence yourself.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

LOL Me !!!

I will do what you have said .

I hope to go to work on it tomorrow !

cheers

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Yes there are L settings
L1 0
L2. 0
L3. 1

is how they are set now

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Ok so I will put it all back together and let you know how it rides and sounds.

Cheers

Baz

 

[saneagle]

Yes there are L settings
L1 0
L2. 0
L3. 1

is how they are set now

It would be interesting to try L3=0 to see if there's any difference. If there were some asymmetry in the hall arrangement, maybe it would be smoother without them. Obviously, it'll only do anything if your controller can actually run sensorlessly.

 

[Nealh]

P1 is good.
P2 /1.
P3 /1 .
P4 /1 to be legal with C4/3.
P5/12 - 15.

C1/ 5 , 6 or 7 which ever picks up the PAS best.
C2/0 is usually the default, one can try all the others or a few secs but not with full power.
C3/0. All C3 does is determine which PAS level the bike display shows when turned on.
C4/3.
C5/10.
C6/3 . Display brightness
C7/0.
C8/0.
C9/0.
C10/N.
C11/0.
C12/ 4 - 7. Each value above increases the lvc by 0.5v , value 4 is 30v lvc.
C13/0.
C14/ 2 or 3.
C15 Value = walk assist spd in kmh. 6 is max.

L1/0 or 2.
L2/0.
L3 Zero is to activate non hall mode. Whilst one is for Hall optimisation.
L4 = lcd shut down time in mins .

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Thanks Guys
all very helpful and helping me get my head round how the bikes work instead of plug and go kits like YOSE.

I will tweak it as per the advise Saneagle and Nealh have posted and let you know how it all goes .

Once done I will swap out the KT for the YOSE integrated controller that I have spare buy a YOSE LCD for the Giant .

Then use the KT kit with the GTech motor now I know it will run it with some knowledge of how to tweak it On the Spezalized in the photo background.

The YOSE frog battery I fitted and bought not to impressed with it but it was cheap enough I had to put epoxy resin on the key barrel wire terminals and the lock pin is not locating very well and needs adjustment.
The plastic bracket housing is a bit cheap and flimsy too.
But I decided against sending it back and thought just to fix it.
It makes the bike a little big for me with how high the lowest point of the seat can now be I am 5ft 8’ so I might make a new bracket to make it fit a bit lower down if possible so it will clamp on the back of the cross bar as well as where cross bar joins the seat post. If it can be done without hitting the brake.

but it’s still fast and light !

The guy who built the bike has done a top job so I do not want to spoil the way it looks though .

so also hiding as much of the cable as possible if I get the time.

classic Pedelecs ! Nice

 

[Nealh]

The P1 setting for the Gtech hub will likely differ from the Yose hub, so one will have to alter that one . I am only guessing the Gtech will be 5.1 gearing but one will have google or look thru the search area on the forum to find out.