Help! Looking for folding ebike, a bit worried about power and hill climbing

[flying_unipig]

Hello pedelecs people,

I currently have a Cube touring ebike, with a Bosch mid drive motor. There are lots of things I love about it, but I am unable to fit it in my car or even most trains, so it really limits the use I get out of it. I originally bought it for commuting, but my circumstances changed, so I mainly use it for leisure trips on trails and the occasional ride in town. Due to my health deteriorating I can't do long rides, so I feel very limited by only being able to use it within a short distance of my house.

I've also moved house and don't have space to store it now, so it lives in the living room and it's a pain to take in and out.

So all of the above to say that I think the answer for me is a folder.

I've been doing lots of research and browsing the forums here, and I think Woosh or Wisper folders are my top contenders. Possibly Wisper due to the torque sensor, as I quite like the feel of that on my Cube.

However, my main worry is how would the power of these rear drive motors compare to my Cube. As mentioned, I have limited ability, can't put a huge amount of effort into pedalling. I understand that cadence sensor might be better in that scenario, but most of the time I get on well with the torque sensor on my current bike and I do enjoy the feel and the ride, so I'm a bit worried about switching to cadence.

I am also a larger rider, at around 100kg.

Sorry for all that background. I guess my question after all that is, what could I expect from the Wisper and Woosh in terms of power, compared to Bosch mid-drive motor? Especially on hill climbs. I worry that any less 'help' than what's given by my Cube would not be enough to allow me to ride regularly.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated!

 

[Deleted member 45125]

This is my Dawes Jack Ebike.

 

[Az.]

This is my Dawes Jack Ebike.

Very tidy conversion. Well done.
I expect it is easy to put in car boot after you remove battery.

...also cheap. I guess total price was under £800

 

[saneagle]

This is my Dawes Jack Ebike.

You should fit at least one torque arm to forks like that. Also, which way does the motor wire exit the axle? It should exit downwards.

 

[Deleted member 45125]

Dawes Jack Ebike .

 

[saneagle]

Dawes Jack Ebike .

I'm sure you have the motor in upside down. You need to rotate the axle 180 deg to get the cable exit downwards.

 

[Deleted member 45125]

I'm sure you have the motor in upside down. You need to rotate the axle 180 deg to get the cable exit downwards.

It does exist downwards, just though you cannot see it from this side.

 

[Deleted member 45125]

You should fit at least one torque arm to forks like that. Also, which way does the motor wire exit the axle? It should exit downwards.

Why do I need a torque arm?

 

[saneagle]

Why do I need a torque arm?

Your drop-outs don't have enough meat around them and aluminium suffers from metal fatigue. They're probably be OK if made from steel.

 

[saneagle]

It does exist downwards, just though you cannot see it from this side.

Are you sure you understand what I mean? The cable normally extends 10" from the axle to the end of the connector. Your photo shows the connector near the rim, which would be 10" from the axle. That doesn’t allow anything to go down then back up again.

 

[Deleted member 45125]

Your drop-outs don't have enough meat around them and aluminium suffers from metal fatigue. They're probably be OK if made from steel.

I selected this Dawes Jack based on all my prior reading on fitting an ebike kit. What type of bike to buy etc. Although this bike has 6061 tubing, the front fork is made from Hi-Tensile Unicrown Steel.
I purposely read up about torque arms and discovered that they are not needed with 250 watt motors in steel forks.

 

[Deleted member 45125]

Are you sure you understand what I mean? The cable normally extends 10" from the axle to the end of the connector. Your photo shows the connector near the rim, which would be 10" from the axle. That doesn’t allow anything to go down then back up again.

For starters the cable coming from the hub axle does not have a connector within 10 inches, so you cannot see a connector near the rim. All I can see near the rim is cable. The connector is 1.8m away!!

So satisfy your curiosity here is exactly what is going on here.

 

[Deleted member 45125]

Hub cable.

 

[AndyBike]

Folding bikes always climb better than ones with big wheels because the motor gets a higher mechanical advantage. basically, they trade speed for force up the hill. If you put the same mptor in bikes with 29" and 20" wheels, the bike with 20" wheel will climb a 45% steeper hill, i.e. if the 29" can do a 10% incline, the 20" can do 14.5%.

So while 20 v 29 will go better up a hill, as long as that is smooth track, it will do better.
If the terrain is rough, the 29er will roll over those obstacles, the 20" won't. It's why larger wheels are used in offroad settings

 

[Az.]

As much as I like your conversion Pip, I must say folder wouldn't be my first choice for off-road cycling. Lack of front and rear suspension is not good for your back either. I would also advice against front hub, small wheels and rim brakes.

Are you happy with how your bike perform?

 

[Deleted member 45125]

As much as I like your conversion Pip, I must say folder wouldn't be my first choice for off-road cycling. Lack of front and rear suspension is not good for your back either. I would also advice against front hub, small wheels and rim brakes.

Are you happy with how your bike perform?

The routes I will be taking are smooth, not off-road mountain bike trails. I have taken them before on my normal bike. It has to be a folder to put into the boot of my car. I do not have a different choice now the work is done. The actual electric part is purely for assistance when my legs need a break, ghost pedalling. I have an indoor cycle that I use every other day for a 30 minute workout. So cycling is not a problem for me. There will be times when the motor will not be switched on as this is my only exercise I can do now, cannot walk any distance to save my life. I will soon find out how it performs once we get some warmer weather.

 

[Sturmey]

So while 20 v 29 will go better up a hill, as long as that is smooth track, it will do better.
If the terrain is rough, the 29er will roll over those obstacles, the 20" won't. It's why larger wheels are used in offroad settings

You can sometimes get the best of both worlds by fitting a large front wheel and a smaller rear wheel. I always liked the more 'relaxed' or 'comfort' geometry that results from this.(Front higher, easier to put your feet on the ground, more stable etc). I am riding at the moment a Carrera Vengence with a 27.5 front and a rear 26 hub motor (XF15).

 

[lenny]

So while 20 v 29 will go better up a hill, as long as that is smooth track, it will do better.
If the terrain is rough, the 29er will roll over those obstacles, the 20" won't. It's why larger wheels are used in offroad settings

 

[guerney]

I found one a British model which was only 13kgs and had accessories I needed, a Dawes Jack. Found a company selling it for £100 less than everyone at £400.

The 20" wheeled Illuminati gains another member! There's a secret foot shake BTW. I hope you'll write about your hilly experiences. If you get front wheel skidding uphill, maybe you try a lower front tyre pressure? What's it's rider weight limit? I converted the bike I already had, but if I was converting a 20" wheeled Dahon again, I'd choose a Dahon HIT - it's 137kg weight limit bodes well for a non-snappy hinge. Some older Dahons like mine have a reinforcement bar over the hinge, the HIT has cable reinforcement under it. I've seen second hand Dahon HITs on ebay going for about £250. Steel forks:

Home - Folding Bikes by DAHON

Official website of DAHON, World Leader in Folding Bicycle, RIDE ANYWHERE, ANY TIME, ANYTHING. Freedom Unfolds.

eu.dahon.com

Your drop-outs don't have enough meat around them and aluminium suffers from metal fatigue. They're probably be OK if made from steel.

Fortunately for the OP, it's steel:

Fork: Dawes Hi-Tensile Unicrown Steel Fork

https://fawkes-cycles.co.uk/dawes-jack-folding-bike-in-black-p11788

 

[MikelBikel]

Or just One big wheel? Hehe. Good luck with braking tho!
('Elektrek.co')
"So far..crashed 15 times but no injuries.. needs gyro to stabilise in traffic", no kidding.

 

[AndyBike]

You can sometimes get the best of both worlds by fitting a large front wheel and a smaller rear wheel. I always liked the more 'relaxed' or 'comfort' geometry that results from this.(Front higher, easier to put your feet on the ground, more stable etc). I am riding at the moment a Carrera Vengence with a 27.5 front and a rear 26 hub motor (XF15).

Called 'The Mullet' no idea where that name came from but its been about for an age.

Originally it was 26/24, mainly on the early DH types, then when 27.5" came in people put the 27.5" on the front, with a 26" rear, but I suspect they only did that because they didnt want the more expensive outlay of a rear 27.5".
29" swept the field clear of offroad wannabees and 27.5" died a death.
26" became the standard size for teenage kids bikes, along with 24" for the smaller kid.

27.5" is still around, but im not sure why really. Maybe frame manufacturers are just lazy