Legallity

[Snowy]

Dear all

I expect this has been posted before but I can't see a way of searching through old posts without actually going through them all.

The legal limit is 250 watts and 15 mph however there seem to be a lot of kits on the market that go well above that. I assume that these can only be used off rd, I expect that many are used on rd however. I have never heard of anyone being apprehended by the long arm of the law for having an illegal electric bike so I assume that as with so many other bits of EU legislation our boys in blue are probably not interested unless you cause an accident?

 

[Fordulike]

I'm sure the police have got better things to do than chase cyclists.
I regularly see people riding on the pavement, riding at night without lights and riding on the road without a helmet, and there's a lot of coppers round here!
Although technically, that last one is not illegal.

Top tips:
1) Don't ride like a pillock.
2) Always pedal when riding at 25mph.
3) Try not to ride under a bus or lorry.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

....and don't jump red traffic lights.

 

[Fordulike]

....and don't jump red traffic lights.

Cwah, you been doing naughty things again

 

[flecc]

I assume that as with so many other bits of EU legislation our boys in blue are probably not interested unless you cause an accident?

Mostly not EU legislation Snowy. The basic laws controlling e-bikes here at present are the 1983 EAPC regulations and the 1988 Road Traffic Act, both of which are entirely UK legislation. The first limits our e-bikes to 200 watts, but a DfT concession allows 250 watts since there is an intention to adopt that from EU law.

At that time our UK law will be broadly harmonised to match EU law, but it will still be UK law with UK variations One such is the 14 years lower age limit for riding an e-bike, something that no other EU country has.

 

[Snowy]

I forget who said it but "The law is for the protection of fools and the guidance of wise men" I shall treat 250 watts as a guide line. Flecc having done a bit more research I realize now that for once we are slightly more lax than the rest of Europe. Now don't get me wrong I am a dedicated pro European but I do feel 250 watts is a bit feeble considering I can buy a kettle that's 3KW. If we want to get away from our addiction to fossil fuel we need to be a bit more realistic about electric vehicles. I shouldn't be at all surprised if the 250 rule isn't as a result of lobbying from moped manufactures.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The limit isn't 250w. You have to have a motor with a nominal rating of 250w. There's no limit on the power that it can provide or consume.

 

[Snowy]

The limit isn't 250w. You have to have a motor with a nominal rating of 250w. There's no limit on the power that it can provide or consume.

Well I would have thought that if its nominal rating is 250 watts then it wont sustain a peak output much above that for to long before it overheats. And how on earth are the boys in blue ever going to work out what the output is unless armed with a current probe, oscilloscope and a test lab?

 

[D8ve]

idiots on bikes cause problems.
Bad cyclists who abuse the cycle exemption and cruse uphill at 30 without pedalling.

Restrained cyclists still get hit by cars and then the legality of there bikes come into question.
I had Broken arm and concussion lying in the road and a friend of the driver tested my brakes! Without my permission. I was legal and brakes were locked on but their insurance company are still fighting.

 

[flecc]

Well I would have thought that if its nominal rating is 250 watts then it wont sustain a peak output much above that for to long before it overheats. And how on earth are the boys in blue ever going to work out what the output is unless armed with a current probe, oscilloscope and a test lab?

The meaning of nominal in this case is exactly that, in name only! Even when submitted for the EU's EN15194 test, there is a choice of power test method, one of them providing considerable flexibility.

The reality is that e-bike motors are commonly capable of 400 to 500 watts, and in a few cases gross power has been at 700 to even 1000 watts. My own sold-as-legal e-bike is capable of just over 1000 watts gross, which at around 75% efficiency can deliver peaks of circa 750 watts, or well over 500 watts continuously for the whole capacity of it's battery.

 

[trex]

suppliers should cancel the throttle signal and force the users to input gradually more energy when riding above 15mph for safety as much as anything. I don't have throttle on my bike and I feel safe all the time because I know I can only go as fast as my legs let me.

 

[tillson]

Now don't get me wrong I am a dedicated pro European but I do feel 250 watts is a bit feeble considering I can buy a kettle that's 3KW.

I believe you, I really do think that you are pro European. How could you not be with thinking like this? I mean, it makes perfect sense to the pro Europe to base electric bike motor power on that of commonly available kettles. This sits in perfect harmony with everything else coming out of Europe.

Incidentally, have you ever tried to throw a kettle over a pub? It's not as easy as you may imagine.

 

[Arbol]

My own sold-as-legal e-bike is capable of just over 1000 watts gross, which at around 75% efficiency can deliver peaks of circa 750 watts, or well over 500 watts continuously for the whole capacity of it's battery.

May I ask which configuration is the one you describe?

 

[benjy_a]

I believe you, I really do think that you are pro European. How could you not be with thinking like this? I mean, it makes perfect sense to the pro Europe to base electric bike motor power on that of commonly available kettles. This sits in perfect harmony with everything else coming out of Europe.

Incidentally, have you ever tried to throw a kettle over a pub? It's not as easy as you may imagine.

Hahaha, this is hilarious reasoning.....my induction range cooker needs 18kw....why can't my bike be more than a cooker?

 

[flecc]

May I ask which configuration is the one you describe?

It's the original eZee Quando, and it was the same on the original eZee Torq. In both cases they had a 30 amp controller, but today's Quando and Torq versions have 20 amp controllers.

That still leaves them amongst the most powerful e-bikes, but the figures I gave must have a third knocked off them for the current models.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Hahaha, this is hilarious reasoning.....my induction range cooker needs 18kw....why can't my bike be more than a cooker?

I think that you should need a licence for any cooker over 12 kw because they're dangerous. You could burn the roast chicken, and then you'd be sorry. And what about the chicken? How would she feel after she gave up her life so that you could have a chicken dinner, only to end up in the dustbin. It's very irresponsible for people to take such risks.

 

[Cyclezee]

Incidentally, have you ever tried to throw a kettle over a pub? It's not as easy as you may imagine.

Hi Tillson,

I think that comment requires an explanation, like how, when, where and why

 

[drsolly]

I once organised a hard disk throwing contest.

 

[RobF]

I once organised a hard disk throwing contest.

As an ebiker, I would much prefer an easy disc throwing contest.

 

[eHomer]

Ok, got all that then.

So the golden rules are:

• Always keep pedaling when above 15 mph
• When riding on the footway, do it slowly, and try to not scatter the pedestrians into the road
• Don't jump red lights
• Don't let your ego force you into publishing a Youtube vid of your XYZ special with it's twin 1 Kw motors riding past the shops at 40mph.

Isn't it fortunate that the majority of ebikers don't appear to brainless pillocks, or we might all be arrested on sight, in possession of a dangerous weapon.