Kuo+/Kudos Secret...please help, so indecisive

[retrolife]

Hi there.

Looking at both the Kuo+ and Secret as need a lightweight folder. It's just for leisure use and won't be getting any serious workouts. I'm 5'4" & 10 stone. Must go in our small boot as it's mainly to join my other half when walking (for health reasons I can't walk very far). Smooth paths and well maintained tracks only. No massive hills. Ideally looking for the support of a throttle (I know not many bikes still have them!) as well as light pedal assist.

I think either of the bikes above seem suitable on paper but I haven't seen/tried them and there's a bit of a price difference. They both have what looks like similar batteries, motors (250w), 20" tyres etc. The only thing is that the Kuo+ has a thumb throttle that is restricted to 6mph (I'd be happier if it was more like 10mph tbh) whereas the Secret has a half twist to 15mph. Replacement batteries are more expensive for the Kuo but maybe the battery would last longer in the first place?

The Kuo+ I'd probably purchase online from Fully Charged in London (anyone bought a bike from them?) as they have a special deal atm of £999 and a 2 year warranty. They also have the back up of a full service centre, collect the bike free of charge and are familiar with A2B bikes which is good as I've seen mixed reviews of A2B customer service. The Secret I'd probably get from Kudos themselves or C H White and that's a 1 year warranty. The battery is now 10.4 Ah which seems pretty decent for a small folder.

Does anyone have any experience with either bike or perhaps tried both? I'd very much appreciate any info. How do they compare? And if you've had any problems how well were they dealt with?

Thanks for any advice...

 

[Kuorider]

Ideally try both bikes if you can. Read any reviews. I can vouch for the Kuo, mine is just over 2 years old now and not a single problem. anything I have done to it is because I wanted some minor mods, or normal service items. I tried the + version and it is excellent. Kudos are quality bikes with lots of good postings on here . Hard to find any adverse comments anywhere about either. It's your choice, I doubt you will go wrong with either.

 

[retrolife]

Ideally try both bikes if you can. Read any reviews. I can vouch for the Kuo, mine is just over 2 years old now and not a single problem. anything I have done to it is because I wanted some minor mods, or normal service items. I tried the + version and it is excellent. Kudos are quality bikes with lots of good postings on here . Hard to find any adverse comments anywhere about either. It's your choice, I doubt you will go wrong with either.

Thanks Kuorider. I have seen some ex demo Kuo bikes online and have wondered whether that would be an option as it brings the price down. Am I right that it is 24v rather than 36v? Did you notice a difference in power (or anything else) when you tried the Kuo+?

Also, does your Kuo have a full throttle as it was manufactured before new regulations? If so, do you find it useful?

As nothing has gone wrong since you got the bike this is probably a pointless question but have you had any dealings with A2B customer service? If so, have they always been helpful? I know sometimes things can be faulty or break. I don't mind that. But how it's dealt with really matters...

 

[Kuorider]

The main differences on the + is the longer range, also the torque sensor pedal assist has been changed, it feels more 'lively' than the 24 volt. However the 24 volt performs well, Mine has altered gearing to give a higher top gear. This suits me as I still put a fair bit of pedal effort in. I have a full function throttle which I could live without, useful for the odd time when the old legs clock out. Range is easily 20 miles which is plenty for how I use this bike . I have a 48 volt Crank drive bike for different outings.
A2B service has not been required, but I do everything myself in a well equipped workshop . Kudos are known to be very good on this . My agent is a friend with a large cycle business and I know he deals with any snags which arise with an efficient and courteous service. The Kuo is the only small bike in his hire fleet for good reason.
There are no service parts which are not normal bike parts, electrical parts can be had from places like Panda bikes, and batteries re celled by the excellent Jimmy at Insat International in London. So for me the maker's service is irrelevant. The intangible thing is that it is just 'nice' .If you like nice mechanical things,nicely made and finished ,the Kuo will appeal.
Reading your post I think the 24 volt one with full throttle would suit your use. But do get a good trial run on both makes . Check if the Kudos battery slips out for charging as charging on the bike may not suit your set up. The Kuo battery is neat, slips off easily with a nifty folding handle. These details can make a lot of difference to your user experience . I have built a couple of bikes for users with disability issues and the full throttle 24 volt bikes have never been any problem. Take your time and choose carefully. There is bound to be someone on here who can fill in with their Kudos experience.
Have you looked at the Woosh Bikes Folder, well priced, excellent back up. May be an alternative choice. Keep us posted.

 

[retrolife]

Cheers for that info. Very helpful. I've just had a look at the difference between torque & cadence sensors. I think the latter would be what I need plus ideally a throttle. There are ex demo Kuo bikes available and the bike really does appeal to me aesthetically. However, I won't be able to test one and am a little wary about a battery that may not have been used for quite some time on a slightly older ex display.

I believe the Kudos Secret battery can be charged on or off the bike which is good. Kudos Dave has been helpful in answering my questions. I've also searched through old posts & sent msgs to Kuo+/Secret owners but I think everyone is busy watching the Olympics or out on their bike!

Anyone who has had these bikes a while - be great to hear how you're getting on with them...

 

[RobF]

Cheers for that info. Very helpful. I've just had a look at the difference between torque & cadence sensors. I think the latter would be what I need plus ideally a throttle. There are ex demo Kuo bikes available and the bike really does appeal to me aesthetically. However, I won't be able to test one and am a little wary about a battery that may not have been used for quite some time on a slightly older ex display.

I believe the Kudos Secret battery can be charged on or off the bike which is good. Kudos Dave has been helpful in answering my questions. I've also searched through old posts & sent msgs to Kuo+/Secret owners but I think everyone is busy watching the Olympics or out on their bike!

Anyone who has had these bikes a while - be great to hear how you're getting on with them...

All too easy to over-research - you will drown in a sea of information of a quality you cannot assess.

A bike is a personal thing, so what works/appeals to me might not to you.

Both of your choices look safe, so it would come down to a test ride.

That's often not easy to arrange, which means you may have to choose without.

Buy a bike sooner rather than later while we've still got some better weather and daylight.

 

[Kuorider]

Check the lifting and placing in your car of any bike. A folder can be an awkward lift . After sales support for the Kuo is in the hands of the dealer and as this can vary. Looking again at your requirements, the more personalised support from Kudos and the exact specification you need, the Secret has got to be your best choice.

 

[retrolife]

All too easy to over-research - you will drown in a sea of information of a quality you cannot assess.

A bike is a personal thing, so what works/appeals to me might not to you.

Both of your choices look safe, so it would come down to a test ride.

That's often not easy to arrange, which means you may have to choose without.

Buy a bike sooner rather than later while we've still got some better weather and daylight.

Agree about over researching Rob tho I'm going to have to purchase without testing so the info such as Kuorider offered is certainly helpful. I'm aiming to make a decision & buy in the next couple of weeks whilst summer is still just about with us. In the end it may come down to whether or not I want/need that 15mph throttle. Shame the Kuo+ has been restricted to 6mph.

 

[RobF]

Don't worry too much about not testing.

Even if you could, there's a limit to what a short tootle around the block will tell you.

On t'other hand some retailers offer longer tests, you've spoken to Dave at Kudos who I believe is not averse to sending a bike on approval.

You mentioned C H White in an earlier post.

Worth a visit if you can, they are one of the more experienced retailers and build their own ebikes.

I bought my AVE from them - after a short tootle around the block - but only to establish everything worked because I was buying that particular bike as an end of line model.

My Rose came from Germany in a box, as all Roses do.

Rose say you can examine the bike 'as you would in a shop', that is sit on it to establish fit.

That purchase also worked fine, I still have the bike four years and thousands of miles later.

 

[retrolife]

Check the lifting and placing in your car of any bike. A folder can be an awkward lift . After sales support for the Kuo is in the hands of the dealer and as this can vary. Looking again at your requirements, the more personalised support from Kudos and the exact specification you need, the Secret has got to be your best choice.

Actually, it is going to be a very tight fit for either bike in our boot. The Kuo+ seems slightly more compact. It's one of my main concerns...that I'll buy and then won't be able to get it in the car. If it's not too cheeky Kuorider can I ask what the dimensions are of your Kuo when folded? What I've read on the web seems to vary and every cm is going to count.

 

[retrolife]

On t'other hand some retailers offer longer tests, you've spoken to Dave at Kudos who I believe is not averse to sending a bike on approval.

Yes, it's £20...£10 delivery and then £10 for collection if decide the bike is not suitable. I don't think I could test the bike outside as understandably it has to go back as new but it would mean I could check it fits in the car before buying.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Retrolife....you can test the bike outside,ideally not in the rain and not on tracks,mainly because I am trying to avoid cleaning it if you do decide return.
With regard to 24V versus 36v,we used to sell a bike called Versatile which was 24v ,it was ok but I wouldnt manufacture another 24v bike.
KudosDave

 

[retrolife]

Retrolife....you can test the bike outside,ideally not in the rain and not on tracks,mainly because I am trying to avoid cleaning it if you do decide return.
With regard to 24V versus 36v,we used to sell a bike called Versatile which was 24v ,it was ok but I wouldnt manufacture another 24v bike.
KudosDave

OK thanks for that Dave.

Why so with the 24v?

Can you clarify something for me - I know we conversed about the new larger 10.4 Ah battery in the Secret. I did call Kudos to ask about delivery and the person I spoke to was certain the bike is still 8Ah. Not a problem as won't be travelling far on it but I'm a bit confused - can you let me know which it is? Thanks.

 

[Kuorider]

Kuo folded is 12" x 25"x 33" Inches of course. That trial offer from Kudos is hard to beat, can't think of anyone else going to that trouble. Get it ,try it , then send the man a cheque.

 

[retrolife]

Kuo folded is 12" x 25"x 33" Inches of course. That trial offer from Kudos is hard to beat, can't think of anyone else going to that trouble. Get it ,try it , then send the man a cheque.

Thanks for measurements. Impressively narrow. I think I'm getting closer to picking one but no doubt I'll manage to dither for a bit longer!

 

[Kudoscycles]

OK thanks for that Dave.

Why so with the 24v?

Can you clarify something for me - I know we conversed about the new larger 10.4 Ah battery in the Secret. I did call Kudos to ask about delivery and the person I spoke to was certain the bike is still 8Ah. Not a problem as won't be travelling far on it but I'm a bit confused - can you let me know which it is? Thanks.

The latest Secret is definitely 10,4 Ah...both the Secret and the new K16 use the same battery....my guy was wrong at 8Ah,I will ' re-educate' someone tomorrow,hehe.
KudosDave

 

[retrolife]

The latest Secret is definitely 10,4 Ah...both the Secret and the new K16 use the same battery

Dave - do you continue to stock replacement batteries even if you discontinue a particular bike model? Maybe a silly question but thinking 2 or 3 years down the line as seems like the slim integrated battery of the Secret & K16 is not commonplace.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Dave - do you continue to stock replacement batteries even if you discontinue a particular bike model? Maybe a silly question but thinking 2 or 3 years down the line as seems like the slim integrated battery of the Secret & K16 is not commonplace.

Batteries for old models...it's not a silly question. Unfortunately the e-bike industry has no common standard with regard to batteries... I bet there are 50 different types/sizes/connectors in use.
We try to standardise as much as possible,the K16 and Secret use the same battery,the Sprint/Stealth/Alamo use the same integrated battery.
I have just imported some 8Ah batteries to suit the Secret Mk1,now 5 years old.
It justifies buying off an importer that has some history and looks like he will be here in 5 years time.
The only really common battery is the water bottle style used on my mountain style bikes and the Bosch clone used on my Sonata and Rapide.
I don't think we have let anybody down with providing replacement batteries.We have built 300 K16 and Secret bikes,the popularity of those models makes it easier to stock batteries.
KudosDave