Kona Ute mid-drive conversion: advice appreciated
- Thread starter Peddlin' Pedro
- Start date
Can anyone advise if this pairing would be a suitable match to my use requirements, and whether the battery is likely to be any good?
Also, am I better going for the 500w or 750w, considering my need is for torque, range and reliability rather than outright top speed?
Drive unit: TDSZ2 48v 500/750w
Battery pack: 48v 17.5Ah Hairon LG 16650 pack
Also, am I better going for the 500w or 750w, considering my need is for torque, range and reliability rather than outright top speed?
Drive unit: TDSZ2 48v 500/750w
Battery pack: 48v 17.5Ah Hairon LG 16650 pack
That's the motor I've got and it suits me perfectly. It's reasonably powerful, but the torque-sensing makes you work for it. TS isn't for everyone though. If you haven't already done so, try and get a test ride of a torque-sensing motor and also a cadence-sensing one- the difference is really apparent.
I'd recommend a throttle either way- great for riding through ruts without having to peddle.
I've got a 14.5ah battery and I'm getting 30-45 miles out of it, depending on the usual variables.
One word of caution around the TSD motors around reliability. They've got an internal drive gear made of plastic, which can be prone to stripping its teeth, particularly if the bike is over-geared (i.e. bigger chainwheel) or under a lot of load (i.e. a heavy cargo bike). A google search "TSDZ blue gear" might be worthwhile so you've at least got the full picture. It hasn't happened to me yet, but I'm sure it will....
I'd recommend a throttle either way- great for riding through ruts without having to peddle.
I've got a 14.5ah battery and I'm getting 30-45 miles out of it, depending on the usual variables.
One word of caution around the TSD motors around reliability. They've got an internal drive gear made of plastic, which can be prone to stripping its teeth, particularly if the bike is over-geared (i.e. bigger chainwheel) or under a lot of load (i.e. a heavy cargo bike). A google search "TSDZ blue gear" might be worthwhile so you've at least got the full picture. It hasn't happened to me yet, but I'm sure it will....
Thanks Gavin. I've ridden a BBSHD and it was fine, not tried a torque sensing unit - though I'm a strong cyclist without a motor - and unlikely to be able to try one as still semi-shielding until we can get antibody tests. I've got T1 diabetes and was very ill through Jan and Feb with textbook covid symptoms but no way of knowing for sure; GP won't order tests due to the risk of bringing me in for bloods. Catch 22.
I'd read about the blue gear and sprag clutch being failure points, along with reports of the helical final drive causing lateral play to develop in its bearing. Can't help thinking that the blue gear is intended to be a point of failure in order to protect other bits from damage if the system gets overstressed.
I am wondering if this means the TDSZ2 is perhaps not best suited for the long-term high load use likely on a cargo bike. I wonder if @peter.c has any thoughts on this?
Any thoughts on the battery? Are these packs up to the job, and are the LG cells suitable for this type of application?
The tsdz2 is not on the same page as a bbs hd half the watts and even less in torque and half the price and lighter ,also less harsh on the battery at 15 amps [25- 30 amps on the hd]
My fs bike in the profile pic can flip me off in turbo pas mode pulling away if i stomp on the pedals
But if used correctly and not abused and you pedal ,not throttle all the time , the tsdz2 is a cyclists motor who will pedal
The hd is an electric motor bike with pedals if you throttle every where , its horses for courses but if you want a work horse with a proven track record and proven long life the hd and it will take serious abuse
My fs bike in the profile pic can flip me off in turbo pas mode pulling away if i stomp on the pedals
But if used correctly and not abused and you pedal ,not throttle all the time , the tsdz2 is a cyclists motor who will pedal
The hd is an electric motor bike with pedals if you throttle every where , its horses for courses but if you want a work horse with a proven track record and proven long life the hd and it will take serious abuse
Yes, I get that. And apologies, turns out it wasn't a bbshd but a bbs02, so not quite as pokey. Point being that I've experienced how they work but have no basis for comparison with the tsdz2.The tsdz2 is not on the same page as a bbs hd half the watts and even less in torque and half the price and lighter ,also less harsh on the battery at 15 amps [25- 30 amps on the hd]
My fs bike in the profile pic can flip me off in turbo pas mode pulling away if i stomp on the pedals
But if used correctly and not abused and you pedal ,not throttle all the time , the tsdz2 is a cyclists motor who will pedal
The hd is an electric motor bike with pedals if you throttle every where , its horses for courses but if you want a work horse with a proven track record and proven long life the hd and it will take serious abuse
I'm certainly in the 'cyclists who'll pedal' camp, so I think the tsdz2 will suit me better. My main concern is around durability for daily use with a heavily loaded bike. If the consensus is that they're up to the job - blue gear and sprag clutch bearing aside - then it sounds like that's the one for me.
With regard to the specific motor and battery I linked to, do you think the 500w or 750w would be better, and would the 17.5Ah LG celled pack be suitable?
Thanks again.
Mine only has a 48v 13.5 ah battery with cheap cells and has proved to be up for it 20 -25 mile+ in turbo eco 40-50+ it was a conscious decision also half the price
The tdz2 48v is a great little motor it will even drag me and a fat bike along, just need to be in the right gear do not let it bog down.
Has more grunt than a bafang bbs01 350 watt about the same as bafang bbs02 500w 25amp not as much as bafang bbs02 750w but you do not need the extra top speed the bafang will provide the only advantage with the bafang is a decent display off the peg option and easy software tweaks
Tried a direct comparison bbs02 against tsdz in the same bike so its real world
As an aside the faster you go and the heavier the cargo the harder to stop
The tdz2 48v is a great little motor it will even drag me and a fat bike along, just need to be in the right gear do not let it bog down.
Has more grunt than a bafang bbs01 350 watt about the same as bafang bbs02 500w 25amp not as much as bafang bbs02 750w but you do not need the extra top speed the bafang will provide the only advantage with the bafang is a decent display off the peg option and easy software tweaks
Tried a direct comparison bbs02 against tsdz in the same bike so its real world
As an aside the faster you go and the heavier the cargo the harder to stop
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Great, thanks. Range is pretty important on this one as it really will be a car replacement a lot of the time so a bigger pack is definitely required. As for speed, really not interested for that very reason: I want to be able to stop 160-190kg of bike, rider, passenger and luggage in a safe distance!
My thinking was more that a bigger drive with bigger power pack would mean less load on both at lower outputs, equating to better range and longer usable lifespan too. Is that a reasonable take on it?
Did you have the 500 or 750w version?
Also, is it worth me making a post just about the motor and battery combo to see who's got experience of it?
The 750w is the one to get with vcld5 display i have 2 cheap battery packs so 26 ah if required use on charge one still cheaper than one with Panasonic cells at 17.5 ah
upgrade to 203mm discs it is a cheap option
upgrade to 203mm discs it is a cheap option
190KG....yowzers! My motorbike weighs less than that!
As you've said that speed isn't important (and also considering the weight you're lugging) maybe consider a smaller chainring to reduce the gearing. This gives you the double win of a slower bike and less load on the motor (and your legs).
Regarding battery, weight clearly isn't an issue to you, so probably worth buying the biggest you can afford.
One other consideration (and sorry to dampen the mood)...are you aware of the legal position regarding the bigger motors? In my case I'm not bothered about an illegal bike so please don't think I'm trying to ruin your fun. But you can imagine the Daily Mail headline if you came a cropper on such a heavy bike with your kiddy on the back....
As you've said that speed isn't important (and also considering the weight you're lugging) maybe consider a smaller chainring to reduce the gearing. This gives you the double win of a slower bike and less load on the motor (and your legs).
Regarding battery, weight clearly isn't an issue to you, so probably worth buying the biggest you can afford.
One other consideration (and sorry to dampen the mood)...are you aware of the legal position regarding the bigger motors? In my case I'm not bothered about an illegal bike so please don't think I'm trying to ruin your fun. But you can imagine the Daily Mail headline if you came a cropper on such a heavy bike with your kiddy on the back....
The woosh 48v is a legal option they have Tongsheng programme it to their requirements
Its not just brakes at 190kg tyres will be a problem
Its not just brakes at 190kg tyres will be a problem
Use one if not a long trip, to be honest have never had to use the second unless bike packing
a modded bafang 250watt is also not legal or an over volted hub motor or a dongle come to that
a modded bafang 250watt is also not legal or an over volted hub motor or a dongle come to that
Ha, that's 160-190 fully loaded. That's with bike, rider, child, child seat, motor and battery totalling around 137-140kg. So any luggage on top of that... okay call it 165-170kg maxed out. Still quite a lump to stop even without extra luggage! And consider that the Ute is actually very light for a cargo bike so you can see where handling and braking become even more important on the bakfiets styles; some of them weigh crazy amounts.
And yes, aware of the slightly daft limits we have but don't imagine I'll attract too much attention pootling along at 15mph with a nipper on the back. Definitely not interested in writing the Daily Hate's headlines for them
Got it, thanks. Regarding brakes, it's currently got BB5s which I've hated since they were first released so it'll get whatever half decent shimanos I can find with the biggest front rotor it'll take.
Agreed, tyres definitely a consideration. I've got a pair of Schwalbe Marathon e-Plus for that very reason. The Contis that came on it are pretty solid but they're looking a bit weary, hence getting the Marathons.
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Wow! Winch territory. Will see how I get with 11-32/42 for a bit first.
And sorry to labour the point but does anyone know what the quality is like with PSWPower's LG packs?
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