Kalkhoff Pro Connect

[c_elder]

I'm putting my hand up! After 15 months of market research (ie dithering around) and balking at, what I believed to be, short-comings of e-bikes on the market, I have finally put my money on the table and ordered a Pro Connect off Tim at 50cycles. He thinks they should be in a position to deliver to customers around the third week of February.

I will use the Pro Connect for daily commuting so the final choice yo-yo'ed quite a bit from...
1. Ezee Forte - ruled out based on info from the Shanghai to Wuhan blog by Wai Won Ching.
2. PowerCycle Salisbury - ruled out based on info from pedelec reviews.
3. Wisper 905Se - ruled out based on info from pedelec reviews.

Hopefully, to help others I intend to make (short) reviews of the Pro Connect at 250 (2 wk), 1000 (2 mth) and 4000 miles (1 yr).

In the mean time I have a question for veterans of the Pansonic system: what's the best way to get the longest distance from a single charge? On flats, I frequently pedal at about 20 mph (well above cut off speed) so is it better to:
1. Turn off the battery on flats and only turn them on uphill?
2. Keep the battery on all the time and rely on the cut out to preserve battery charge?

Any opinion welcome - thanx!

 

[Cyclezee]

Congratulations You are obviously a fit serious cyclist.
Sounds like you are doing about 25 miles a day based on cycling 5 days per week.
From my experience with the Agattu, you will easily do 25 miles on A Pro-Connect on full power with plenty to spare, so I would just leave the power on all the time, set the power level at what ever you are happiest with, but after initial conditioning fully recharge everyday.

John

P.S. In my opinion, the Wisper Works 905se is not a bad bike and has good battery which does not suffer cut outs, unlike some other brands. A bit overpriced, but aren't thay all.

 

[c_elder]

You are obviously a fit serious cyclist.
Sounds like you are doing about 25 miles a day based on cycling 5 days per week.

Hi Aldby
The mileage is correct but serious fit cyclist umm... no, just tired of London public transport. Also, I'm guessing as to the speed, possibly 15mph on flats may be more correct.

Also, I was hoping to recharge only once or twice a week - that was the reason for the question. What I am thinking of is only using the motor uphill (maybe 5-10...ish miles per day). At a range of approx 50 miles, that is one charge per week.

That's the theory anyway. However one of my favourite quotes is...

In theory, theory and practice should be the same, in practice they are different

 

[flecc]

25 miles on standard power setting all the time is comfortably within it's capabilities.

Best for an all round mix of economy and performance is:

Switched off downhill or very easy flat stretches, following wind etc.

Standard setting on most of the flat, light headwinds and moderate hills.

High power on steeper hills or strong headwinds.

Put another way, it's using the power according to need.
.

 

[frank9755]

Not a bad short list - I also have a 25-mile daily return commute in London and have done it successfully over the last 8 months using two of those bikes!

I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the Pro-Connect.

In addition to economy, the other factor that you may want to take into account is speed. Depending on the hilliness of your route, different bikes would perform differently.

Frank

 

[John L]

This would be a great addition to Flecc's recent review of the agattu. My commute is about 30 miles a day and I would be interested to see how you manage the trip. I like Flecc's idea of only using the power when its necessary as this would promote some exercise without being too draining.

I had hoped to order the Pro-Connect this month but finances prevent me from doing so just at the moment - circumstances change. Nevertheless I'll be keeping a keen eye on reviews and on the forum generally - also trying to encourage others to think electric as well!

John

 

[John L]

Hi folks

Just a general query about battery life. The brochure on 50cycles website mentions that battery life is 500 recharges or 40,000 klms. That seems like a good return - on the basis of 150 miles per week for 52 weeks at near full power (say 30 miles per charge in my case) I could expect almost two years. Is this another theory v practice or is it reasonable?

John

 

[flecc]

Hi folks

Just a general query about battery life. The brochure on 50cycles website mentions that battery life is 500 recharges or 40,000 klms. That seems like a good return - on the basis of 150 miles per week for 52 weeks at near full power (say 30 miles per charge in my case) I could expect almost two years. Is this another theory v practice or is it reasonable?

John

I believe it's reasonable John. Panasonic have been using Li-ion batteries for a long time, some years on their folding bike, so there's plenty of experience backing them and the two year warranty.

The battery price speaks volumes to me. Panasonic at £305 for 26 volts, and the one for the 350 watt BionX at £450 for 37 volts. The BionX is another that has been performing well and lasting for two years so far with hardly any loss of capacity.

That seems to me to indicate that quality costs about £150 per 12 volts, while the batteries that have been the source of so much trouble from two manufacturers have been costing only just over £80 per 12 volts, barely over half as much. Something has to give for that huge difference to exist.
.

 

[frank9755]

...the batteries that have been the source of so much trouble from two manufacturers

Who is the other one?

 

[flecc]

Who is the other one?

Wisper were suffering some cut-outs on the 10Ah 905e battery, a couple reported in here. The character was the same, under high load when hill climbing, so probably the same tiring of the cell chemistry. The incidence was much lower than with eZee's, partly through the motor being lower power, but probably as much due to the difference in numbers sold. As with eZee, there was insistence that no problem existed, but I noted David Miall's remarks on the new 14 Ah battery that it might not be the final solution so research was continuing.
.

 

[frank9755]

Thanks - I'd missed that Wisper owners had had it happen on the old 905e. I'm not too surprised given it was the same motor as the Torq, even though not set up for high speeds.

Powacycle seems safe as the power demand is moderate. Powabyke seems to be a quality system; I can only think of Synergie/Sustain as other purveyors of lithium. I wonder how they have gone?

 

[flecc]

I can only think of Synergie/Sustain as other purveyors of lithium. I wonder how they have gone?

They've possibly been ok, since they are markedly less powerful, I'd estimate 400 watts gross or thereabouts.

Giant are successfully using Li-ion on the new Twist 1 with it's twin 24 volt pannier batteries. Of course they total 20 Ah, so that would help with any high discharge needs anyway. More importantly perhaps is that they also conform to the price model I proposed. The twin batteries cost £600, once again £150 per 12 volts @ 10 Ah capacity, exactly the same as Panasonic and BionX, the other satisfactory ones.

It points increasingly to that being the cost of good Li-ions. Paradoxically they are actually cheaper in practice. Two years minimum and still going strong for the £450 BionX battery is less than £250 for a 6 to 12 month life original type eZee battery, both nominally 36 volts.
.

 

[c_elder]

...Being a lithium battery, once it's run in initially, it can be charged at any time, the more often the better, and Panasonic have had the longest experience of all in using these on e-bikes. Running in and further charging advice is in the Extra section after this review...

...The battery has two states from which the first charge is done. The bike's manual refers to it being received in "sleep mode", from which no current can be drawn until it's fully charged before first attempting to ride. It's likely that state occurs when the battery has been stored before delivery, since those from the first production have been already active and part charged when received. Although then usable, they still need to be fully charged, and these batteries tend to achieve the highest capacity when they are initially fully charged and then completely discharged on the bike two or three times until the low battery LED indication flashes. In typically Japanese fashion, Panasonic are usually very careful to make no mistakes, so it was amusing to spot the spelling of "remaining" on the battery's level gauge, seen here...

Hi Flecc

I've been re-reading your Agattu review again about battery management and how to get the best out of it.

After the initial run in why is it better to keep the battery topped up? The little I know about battery hysteresis would tend to suggest that the best result would be obtained from maintaining full charge-discharge cycles. That has been my experience from mobile phones.

Thank you in advance for any further info.

 

[flecc]

The whole consensus of manufacturer's advice is that way for Li-ion batteries, and independents in the industry like Battery University say the same, and it's my experience with some other types too.

I can well understand the need for mobile phone batteries to operate differently, and possibly there's a difference in the construction and formulation to aid that.

However, if you go on a hunt for advice on lithium battery charging, you'll find from all the sources I've ever seen the advice to charge little and often, keeping them full. Of course the same is true of lead acid, preferring cycling to full discharge.

Jeremy has also cited the case of the Toyota Prius NiMh cells which are constantly cycled up and down, never fully discharged, or for that matter, reaching full charge, but guaranteed for 8 years of continuous charge cycling usage.

There's also the long experience of perfectly ordinary Li-ions in satellites, where they are topped up to full charge once every 24 hours by solar power, with one seventh of the capacity used during each daily dark phase. They run for 10 years with well over 3500 charges.

I think the only rechargeable battery that really has to have full charge/discharge use is the near defunct NiCad, though NiMh in our sort of usage like an occasional discharge to about 1.1 volts per cell.
.

 

[jimmyengland1000]

I have finally put my money on the table and ordered a Pro Connect off Tim at 50cycles. He thinks they should be in a position to deliver to customers around the third week of February.

I wouldn't get your hopes up re delivery. I ordered a diamond frame Agattu and was told delivery would be "mid-january but end of January at the absolute latest". I phoned 50Cycles last week to ask if the bike had arrived and was told it would be here "next week" and that it was on its way from Germany. I phoned yesterday and was told again that it would be "here next week" (ie February) and that Kalkhoff had sent only step-through bikes etc etc.

It all seems a bit opaque to me as to when the supplier is going to send these bikes or not. I'll be giving it 60 days max. from paying 25% deposit and then be asking for a refund.

 

[flecc]

It's the old bike manufacturing problem again. There's been supply line difficulties on some of Shimano's hub gears due to high demand, this affecting a number of manufacturers and some bikes haven't been available for a while as a result.

I suspect in this case it's the new 8 speed hub availability that's causing the delays.
.

 

[jimmyengland1000]

Yes, I heard about that Shimano 8-speed problem (probably from you actually). Bit of a pain really. I'd prefer the manufacturer to be honest with 50Cycles and them to be able therefore to be honest to me. Ticking weeks off one at a time isn't much fun, especially when one has paid a substantial deposit....

 

[musicbooks]

What Is Going On???

Yes, I heard about that Shimano 8-speed problem (probably from you actually). Bit of a pain really. I'd prefer the manufacturer to be honest with 50Cycles and them to be able therefore to be honest to me. Ticking weeks off one at a time isn't much fun, especially when one has paid a substantial deposit....

I've paid thefull whack (be it through cyclescheme) and have been waiting for the best part of two months.. "any day now" IS BEGINNING TO WEAR A BIT THIN FRANKLY. I completely agree, I was promised any day now over two weeks ago. I feel there should be more transparency ( HONESTY IS ALWAYS HE BEST POLICY WITH CUSTOMERS) and if 50cycles have communication problems with Kalkhoff, I work with plenty of German colleagues who could deal with any cultural/translation difficulties!!!!

COME ON 50CYLCES.. give us a definitive delivery date!!

 

[flecc]

I'd prefer the manufacturer to be honest with 50Cycles and them to be able therefore to be honest to me.

I'd guess size comes into it Jimmy.

If Giant with their many millions a year bike production ask Shimano, they'll probably get good answers and priority attention. Derby Cycles Group with their 100,000 a year might not fare so well.

If li'l ol' eZeebike ask, who knows?
.

 

[Cyclezee]

Perhaps it would be better for all concerned, supplier and customer if Derby Cycles could announce an actual date when bikes will be shipped to the UK? Is that so difficult?
Surely they know how production is going, how many of which particular model they are building and when they will be ready.
I would imagine the Derby Cycles pedelec models are built to order rather than being available 'off the peg' as these bikes are not sold in huge numbers, that is understandable.
If that is the case wouldn't it be better if 50cycles said, available to order and stated that on their website rather than "in stock very soon"? This might end the constant speculation.
The fact that no actual photos of the diamond frame Agattu are available from any source other than my Photoshop mockup (see attached image), would suggest none have actually been manufactured yet.

John