Just got an ebay kit. Good for London commute?

Howdy. Excited to have an ebay kit for my mountain bike. My hope is to use it for my journey to work. Any of you guys ride in London? How have you found police attention? Any tips for keeping out of the way of law enforcement? The motor on the rear wheel is quite physically large - is that too inconspicuous? I have no intention of riding fast or dangerously - just want to alleviate some of the effort of pedalling.

Post a few photos

Post a few photos

 

I believe it'll look something like this https://us.voilamart.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/e/b/ebv-48n1000wrc-0-us.jpg

1000W jobbie cheap of eBay? Hope you don't have hills on your route, and got a big battery as it will guzzle leccy juice. You'll need better brakes if you hurtle around at moped like speeds. Are you going to register it as a S-pedelec? You'll also need proper lid, reg plate MOT and to keep out of shared cycle / pedestrian paths and keep to the roads.

Edited March 15, 20197 yr by Wicky

1000W jobbie cheap of eBay? Hope you don't have hills on your route, and got a big battery as it will guzzle leccy juice. You'll need better brakes if you hurtle around at moped like speeds. Are you going to register it as a S-pedelec? You'll also need proper lid, reg plate MOT and to keep out of shared cycle / pedestrian paths and keep to the roads.

 

I'm hearing a lot of conflicting stances on this matter. Some threads like this https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/do-the-cops-care-about-illegal-ebikes.26541/ essentially say "use it sensibly and nobody will care" while others warn of serious legal consequences.

 

If it's that risky I might just return the items and abandon the project. I can't be bothered to expend lots of time, effort, and money on some strangled bike with a microscopic motor to follow the precise letter of the law.

 

I'm curious to hear the experiences and attitudes of Londoners.

I can't find any evidence of an illegal electric bike rider ever having been prosecuted, but you have to bear in mind the case of the fixie rider that hit a woman when she stepped out in front of him without looking while texting. She died. He went to jail for a long time because he didn't have a front brake.

 

It's difficult to prove that some illegal kits are in fact illegal, but you'll make it a lot easier for them by fitting a massive pancake motor in your back wheel.

I'm hearing a lot of conflicting stances on this matter. Some threads like this https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/do-the-cops-care-about-illegal-ebikes.26541/ essentially say "use it sensibly and nobody will care" while others warn of serious legal consequences.

 

If it's that risky I might just return the items and abandon the project. I can't be bothered to expend lots of time, effort, and money on some strangled bike with a microscopic motor to follow the precise letter of the law.

 

I'm curious to hear the experiences and attitudes of Londoners.

 

Here in the north east noone gives a shite about my modded Carrera that shoots along at 25mph. Can't vouch for London, but one advantage these have is they don't cause noise pollution, hardly anyone seems to know what they are so you will probably not be bothered if you ride sensibly, which you have to to stay alive in whacky races London anyway. It is still all at your own risk though, we get away with it now but the police may turn their attention once enough idiots start causing harm with them. Chances are if you pretend to peddle like mad when going fast noone will even notice

I can't find any evidence of an illegal electric bike rider ever having been prosecuted, but you have to bear in mind the case of the fixie rider that hit a woman when she stepped out in front of him without looking while texting. She died. He went to jail for a long time because he didn't have a front brake.

 

It's difficult to prove that some illegal kits are in fact illegal, but you'll make it a lot easier for them by fitting a massive pancake motor in your back wheel.

 

This is one example I found on this site https://guernseypress.com/news/2017/12/18/electric-bike-rider-is-taken-off-roads/

 

I had considered that the mid-drive conversion kit style might be more discreet. Maybe I'll give the pancake back, and try to fit something mid-drive instead.

 

Presumably determining whether it's legal or not requires the bike to be confiscated and taken somewhere for analysis. It seems unlikely that would happen for a "routine" stop and search, unless you've done something dangerous or aggressive to piss them off. I don't know :/

Guensey is a tiny island where everybody can see what's going on. It's nearer to France than our mainland and it's not even in the UK. Stop being a smartass. If it really worries you what's going on 100 miles out to sea, give up the idea of that 1000W kit then.

Guensey is a tiny island where everybody can see what's going on. It's nearer to France than our mainland and it's not even in the UK. Stop being a smartass. If it really worries you what's going on 100 miles out to sea, give up the idea of that 1000W kit then.

 

I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm just paranoid. Or looking to gauge how much my paranoia is justified. Didn't know Guernsey wasn't in the UK, TIL.

 

I ordered the kit kind of impulsively and I guess I didn't think it through. Since only motors with >750W come in those large diameter black cases, it's pretty easy to identify from a distance as illegal. It might be worth opting for a mid-drive type for more stealth.

To be honest less would do especially if it`s used mainly in and around London, there`s plenty of legal hub and mid-drive conversions out there that will do the job much better.

I`d consider the likes of Woosh or one of the other sellers in this forum, they`re always there in case you need guidance or run into problems, something you won`t get from Ebay sellers.

Try searching for threads relating to keywords London commute

 

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/commuting-to-work-on-ebike-in-london.31356/

 

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/also-looking-to-commute-in-london-different-parameters.19675/

 

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/what-bike-for-a-20-mile-each-way-daily-commute.30991/

 

etc.

 

And if your route is through stop start traffic light dominated roads then a bike with better acceleration compared to rip roaring outright speed will have an advantage of its own. Have you experince of riding a pedelec? - if not arrange a test ride to get a better idea of a practical performance offered by standard pedelec as a baseline for your build. It could potentially save you hundreds of pounds, time & grief ...

Hi Bike_Curious

I think that your caution is well advised. There has been a smattering, admittedly small, of prosecutions for the use of illegal ebikes. The danger of accidents and injury involving innocent parties is not, however, the only factor to be taken into consideration; such occurrences, or even just a visit to this website, could well confirm to the authorities that the law is being disregarded on a widespread basis and the result could be more onerous legislation for ALL pedelecers. This is something which we should reflect on out of fairness to all. My own particular gripe is the number of ordinary "bike users", (can't call them cyclists), riding around on roads, paths, and cycleways at night showing no lights or any respect for the Highway Code. These folk are a real menace to motorists and pedestrians alike, and should be dealt with by Plod.

I have been riding around central London on a BBSHD powered ebike pretty much every day for the last 6 months. Throttle only, no pedalling, big bike with mirrors and massive battery pack - not exactly trying to blend in. I pass the police vehicles few times on every commute and never had any issues. With so much traffic you will blend in perfectly. There is a ton of electric scooters which are equally illegal and much more visible and these don't get stopped too. Just as an example, last month I saw I guy riding an electric monocycle near Liverpool St station, tailgating a police car in the middle lane for good half a mile and no one cared. If you're sensible, wearing a helmet and not endangering others you will be absolutely fine. Just don't crash into anything, that's when things could get messy. Or buy an insurance.

Hi Bike_Curious

I think that your caution is well advised. There has been a smattering, admittedly small, of prosecutions for the use of illegal ebikes. The danger of accidents and injury involving innocent parties is not, however, the only factor to be taken into consideration; such occurrences, or even just a visit to this website, could well confirm to the authorities that the law is being disregarded on a widespread basis and the result could be more onerous legislation for ALL pedelecers. This is something which we should reflect on out of fairness to all. My own particular gripe is the number of ordinary "bike users", (can't call them cyclists), riding around on roads, paths, and cycleways at night showing no lights or any respect for the Highway Code. These folk are a real menace to motorists and pedestrians alike, and should be dealt with by Plod.

Sorry to have to be contrary, but can you produce some evidence that anyone has ever been prosecuted? There has always been scaremongering, but nobody has ever given us anything concrete.

 

The aregument about tighter legislation because there are too many illegal bikes has been running here for at least 10 years. If anything, during that time, legislation has given us more freedom to get the power we want.

I've decided I don't want the headaches of an illegal bike. I'm going to return the item, and at some point in the future get one that complies with the law.

I've decided I don't want the headaches of an illegal bike. I'm going to return the item, and at some point in the future get one that complies with the law.

well said.

legal kits are also lighter and more energy efficient.

If you need high torque, I would recommend something like the Woosh 48V TSDZ2 kit. If you prefer to avoid shifting gears, the X08C kit.

I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm just paranoid. Or looking to gauge how much my paranoia is justified. Didn't know Guernsey wasn't in the UK, TIL.

 

I ordered the kit kind of impulsively and I guess I didn't think it through. Since only motors with >750W come in those large diameter black cases, it's pretty easy to identify from a distance as illegal. It might be worth opting for a mid-drive type for more stealth.

You could still go up to 20mph easily with a 350W geared rear hub which is same size as a 250W and hardly noticeable. you would get 25miles plus from a 10Amh battery too.Quick off the lights as well. Surely London traffic is usually pretty slow anyway.

A 250/350w hub is capable of up to 28/30 mph if used @48v, you just have to get the correct rpm winding for your terrain use.

Since only motors with >750W come in those large diameter black cases, it's pretty easy to identify from a distance as illegal.

 

Unless an officer is an ebike enthusiast they will never spot if the motor is overpowered or not. Event then, unless there is a label on it that says it's more than 250W, or there is no label at all (as required by the law), you could claim this is a 250W kit. Similarly with mid-drive motors, it would be difficult to know for certain if it's a 250W road legal or 1000W overpowered motor just by looking at it if there was no label on it. Riding fast does not necessarily mean the motor is overpowered, you could have just been pedalling really fast. Central London is full of cyclists hitting 30-35mph on road bikes.

 

The only way to prove you wrong would be to take your bike to a testing facility which is extremely unlikely unless you've been stopped for doing 100mph; routine check would most likely be limited to a conversation. Be a nice guy and you'll just be told to slow down.

Unless an officer is an ebike enthusiast they will never spot if the motor is overpowered or not. Event then, unless there is a label on it that says it's more than 250W, or there is no label at all (as required by the law), you could claim this is a 250W kit. Similarly with mid-drive motors, it would be difficult to know for certain if it's a 250W road legal or 1000W overpowered motor just by looking at it if there was no label on it. Riding fast does not necessarily mean the motor is overpowered, you could have just been pedalling really fast. Central London is full of cyclists hitting 30-35mph on road bikes.

 

The only way to prove you wrong would be to take your bike to a testing facility which is extremely unlikely unless you've been stopped for doing 100mph; routine check would most likely be limited to a conversation. Be a nice guy and you'll just be told to slow down.

 

Fair enough. One of my paranoias was specifically meeting a police officer who is an ebike enthusiast. Or not even an enthusiast level of interest would be necessary - after a couple of days of internet research I was aware that all of those large-diameter hub motors are overpowered with respect to the legal limit. I was worried that after some twat inevitably rides a 1000w bike too fast and hurts someone, all police will be issued with these guidelines of how to spot illegal bikes easily, as part of a crackdown. The Bafang you've got is much more discreet looking than the ebay 1000w hub motors.

This is one example I found on this site https://guernseypress.com/news/2017/12/18/electric-bike-rider-is-taken-off-roads/

 

I had considered that the mid-drive conversion kit style might be more discreet. Maybe I'll give the pancake back, and try to fit something mid-drive instead.

 

Presumably determining whether it's legal or not requires the bike to be confiscated and taken somewhere for analysis. It seems unlikely that would happen for a "routine" stop and search, unless you've done something dangerous or aggressive to **** them off. I don't know :/

my thoughts entirely.that motor looks hugely obviously not 250w. whereas a bbshd also 1000w is discreet and the same size virtually as legal 250w mid drives (about 1" wider).dont be put off of what you want by paranoia.this is my bbshd with 52v battery

Edited March 19, 20197 yr by minexplorer

One point on insurance, is that, if the insurance company find out that you are riding an illegal ebike, they won't pay out. So if you hit someone and injure them, the damages, lawyers' costs etc. might end up coming out of your own pocket.

 

Basically there is little risk if you don't hit anyone, but if you do and someone inspects the bike, it could get messy. Impact damage formula is 1/2 mass X velocity squared and overpowered bikes tend to be heavier and faster.

One of my paranoias was specifically meeting a police officer who is an ebike enthusiast.

 

If you meet such officer he would probably stop you just to complement your bike and give you high five

 

I was worried that after some twat inevitably rides a 1000w bike too fast and hurts someone, all police will be issued with these guidelines of how to spot illegal bikes easily, as part of a crackdown.

 

I would imagine if the crackdown was ever to be launched it would start with electric scooters which are all and without exception illegal, very easy to spot and way more popular on streets of London.

 

Regarding large diameter, it may suggest the bike is overpowered as they usually tend to be, but then again it may not be. If you pair it with a little controller and small battery the max output of that motor in that particular setup could be within limits set by law. So again, large diameter means nothing and you cannot be prosecuted without concrete proof of breaking the law.

 

But as others mentioned in previous posts, you can justify and argue all you want as there are a lot of grey areas, but if you cause a serious damage then it all becomes a different story.

I've decided I don't want the headaches of an illegal bike. I'm going to return the item, and at some point in the future get one that complies with the law.

 

That's very sensible, and an internally geared 250 watt legal hub motor will perform much better in stop-start traffic conditions than a large direct drive, which are slow accelerating off the mark though good for illegal high speeds.

 

Although there's little risk of being prosecuted for an illegal motor, if you had an accident the risk then is very much greater. London's traffic police are well aware of the law on pedelecs since both the Met and City of London forces have trialled them for police work. Indeed a City of London traffic officer did charge a pedelec rider after an accident for having a motor 50 watts over the legal limit at the time. We did manage to get that dropped though since that particular offence had a technical legal element, but it shows that prosecution is certainly possible and would succeed if a 1000 watt motor was involved.

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