Juicy Classic Dutch or Apache Wakita City 2020 model 26 inch?

[kazumadesu]

Hello, I'm going to be buying my first electric bike and am currently looking at two choices; the Juicy Classic Dutch for £1085 and the Apache Wakita City for 1200 Euros/£1100. They're both step-throughs and look really nice in my opinion. The major differences are that :

• The Juicy only has a 300Wh 10Ah battery whilst the Apache has a 470Wh 16Ah battery
• Juicy has rigid suspension whilst Apache has Suntour NEX HLO suspension fork with a crown lockout
• Juicy has LED panel whilst Apache has LCD (not a big difference tbh)
• Juicy has disc brakes whilst Apache has normal V-brakes
• Juicy is a British company whilst Apache is Czech so has to be bought online from greatebike.eu (anyone used them? parent company is ekolo.cz which seems to be a well-reviewed Czech company on google)
• Can test ride Juicy classic near my house, can't test ride the Apache, although both are rear-hub motors
• Juicy offers finance whereas I would have to pay upfront for the Apache
• Juicy has 12 months warranty whilst Apache has 24 months warranty for frame and components & 12 months for battery - but I need to get a warranty inspection done within 3 months of purchase at their service partner in London

From this it looks as if the Apache Wakita is the winner but I wanted to get other people's opinions on here. For example if anyone has used either of these bikes or the brands before or whether I can find something cheaper but similar. My normal commute would be around 10 miles on flat ground to uni 3 times a week but I would like to go cycling around country parks near/in London (e.g. Richmond Park, Lee Valley, South Downs) from time to time when the weather's good.

Juicy Dutch Classic: https://www.juicybike.co.uk/electric-bikes/classic-click-dutch-style-electric-bicycle
Apache Wakita City 2020 model 26 inch: https://apache-bike.cz/en/catalogue/product/wakita-city-26

 

[Amoto65]

No contest for me, would buy the Juicy, have had one off them before and it was great plus they are based in England, My opinion but at the end of the day it is your money and your choice.

 

[kazumadesu]

No contest for me, would buy the Juicy, have had one off them before and it was great plus they are based in England, My opinion but at the end of the day it is your money and your choice.

Which battery did you get or which one would I need? Were the ranges on their site fairly accurate?

 

[Jonah]

No contest for me, would buy the Juicy, have had one off them before and it was great plus they are based in England, My opinion but at the end of the day it is your money and your choice.

I would agree, Juicy are good company with good support. Never heard of Apache. Some others perhaps worth looking at?

Wisper (a little more expensive but you might get a deal for similar money)

Eg

Buy a Wisper 705 Step Through Electric Bike from E-Bikes Direct

The Wisper 705 Step Through is well styled and features a very adaptable unisex design that provides a great all around riding experience.

www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk

or Woosh
Eg

Woosh Crusa | electric cruiser bicycle from Woosh

The Woosh Crusa electric low Step cruiser bike, a very comfortable electric bike with relax riding position. With 36V 13AH battery from Woosh.

wooshbikes.co.uk

 

[Chainring]

How did you find that company?!* They have a good range in the city bikes. There is one similar to the one you have pointed out, that has Nexus 3-speed. If all your work is on flat ground, that would be ideal. But no front suspension. 13ah battery.

 

[kazumadesu]

I would agree, Juicy are good company with good support. Never heard of Apache. Some others perhaps worth looking at?

Wisper (a little more expensive but you might get a deal for similar money)

Eg

Buy a Wisper 705 Step Through Electric Bike from E-Bikes Direct

The Wisper 705 Step Through is well styled and features a very adaptable unisex design that provides a great all around riding experience.

www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk

or Woosh
Eg

Woosh Crusa | electric cruiser bicycle from Woosh

The Woosh Crusa electric low Step cruiser bike, a very comfortable electric bike with relax riding position. With 36V 13AH battery from Woosh.

wooshbikes.co.uk

I'd never heard of Apache too before I found their bike, but they seem to be big in the Czech Republic fwiw. Thanks for the link to the Woosh Crusa, looks like a great bargain. Would I be able to move the battery to behind the seat post? That's the only niggle I have, tube-mounted>rack-mounted imo.

How did you find that company?!* They have a good range in the city bikes. There is one similar to the one you have pointed out, that has Nexus 3-speed. If all your work is on flat ground, that would be ideal. But no front suspension. 13ah battery.

I just searched "european electric bicycles" haha. I asked about the difference between the Tanka Nexus and Wakita and they said go for the Wakita just in case due to the suspension, though maybe they want me to spend more euros...

Regarding support, the website that's selling it (greatebike.eu) has a deal of sorts with a local company called Fully Charged who also sell and repair ebikes.

 

[Amoto65]

Wisper are also very good have had one of their bikes for over 2 years and it is excellent.

 

[Amoto65]

All my bikes are used around the Peak District so do quite a lot of climbing as for range it is dependent on terrain etc, but both Juicy and Wisper gave good range.

 

[kazumadesu]

All my bikes are used around the Peak District so do quite a lot of climbing as for range it is dependent on terrain etc, but both Juicy and Wisper gave good range.

that sounds good then. I'm going to go test ride the Juicy tomorrow and see how it feels

 

[Nealh]

Tbh and though Juicy are recommended and have good CS, I think the LWB battery behind the seat tube design is so yesterday and a dated design, Woosh, Wisper and Kudos both have more modern and up to date offerings though some of their prices will reflect in having better specs. All day long I would choose Hydraulic disc on any e -bike.

 

[kazumadesu]

Tried the Juicy Dutch Poco which is the smaller 24 inch version today because the main Dutch Classic was a bit unavailable. Overall I liked it, especially with the throttle assist to help me set off. I'm 5ft 2 so it's an ideal size for me however it does have less range than the slightly bigger 26 inch version (36 miles at 470Wh compared to 40-55 miles at 470Wh) despite being the same price. Would I be fine with just putting the seat post as far down as possible on the Dutch Classic? Managed to negotiate £100 off for getting the 470Wh battery upgrade but I feel I didn't haggle as well as I could i.e. ask for free battery upgrade since the Apache 470Wh is the same price as the standard Juicy 315Wh. I'm going back to try out the Classic on Monday so are there any tips for bargaining with my LBS?

 

[RobF]

any tips for bargaining with my LBS?

You need to use the phrase 'I will give' and stick to it.

Trying to bargain without placing an order is waste of time for both parties.

In other words, pick a deal/discount and make it clear to shop you will buy the bike if they agree.

Waving the cash in front of the salesman's nose at this point - literally smell the money - was the old fashioned way of doing it.

I have pulled out my debit card and placed it on the salesman's desk to reinforce the point of me being a serious buyer.

 

[Woosh]

Would I be fine with just putting the seat post as far down as possible on the Dutch Classic?

yes, that will work. The main problem for small riders and big bikes is that the arm reach feels wrong, so the bike appears a bit clumsy.
I do agree that 24" bikes will suit you very well but you shouldn't have excluded folding bikes in your search. Some modern folding bikes are much lighter than full sized 26".

The Rambletta | Powerful Foldable Electric Bikes with 10.4AH semi-hidden battery from Woosh

The Woosh Rambletta is the most recent 20kg folding bike from Woosh, with a large 36V * 10.4AH semi-hidden battery, very easy to stowaway, perfect for camping / caravanning.

wooshbikes.co.uk

 

[JuicyBike]

Would I be fine with just putting the seat post as far down as possible on the Dutch Classic?

Pleased you like our Classic.

Before anyone can say if a seat adjustment will be okay or not, try one.
If you let us know which shop is neatest to you I can check they have one available.

Our website also gives a range of inside leg measures suitable for each bike but that on its own is nothing like sitting on and riding.

Arms for instance vary in length

In general go for larger size wheels for comfort, range and stability.

If you email us directly we can sort out an offer for you.

Hope this helps.

 

[kazumadesu]

You need to use the phrase 'I will give' and stick to it.

Trying to bargain without placing an order is waste of time for both parties.

In other words, pick a deal/discount and make it clear to shop you will buy the bike if they agree.

Waving the cash in front of the salesman's nose at this point - literally smell the money - was the old fashioned way of doing it.

I have pulled out my debit card and placed it on the salesman's desk to reinforce the point of me being a serious buyer.

Wow that's quite a serious way of bargaining but it does sound very effective! I will follow your advice and stick to my price along with making it clear that I'll buy on the spot if they accept my deal. Thanks for the tips!

yes, that will work. The main problem for small riders and big bikes is that the arm reach feels wrong, so the bike appears a bit clumsy.
I do agree that 24" bikes will suit you very well but you shouldn't have excluded folding bikes in your search. Some modern folding bikes are much lighter than full sized 26".

The Rambletta | Powerful Foldable Electric Bikes with 10.4AH semi-hidden battery from Woosh

The Woosh Rambletta is the most recent 20kg folding bike from Woosh, with a large 36V * 10.4AH semi-hidden battery, very easy to stowaway, perfect for camping / caravanning.

wooshbikes.co.uk

Thanks for the folding bike recommendation

Pleased you like our Classic.

Before anyone can say if a seat adjustment will be okay or not, try one.
If you let us know which shop is neatest to you I can check they have one available.

Our website also gives a range of inside leg measures suitable for each bike but that on its own is nothing like sitting on and riding.

Arms for instance vary in length

In general go for larger size wheels for comfort, range and stability.

If you email us directly we can sort out an offer for you.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply I am going back to my local shop to try the Classic since they have a few available. I have just sent an email to your sales team regarding an offer .

 

[RobF]

Wow that's quite a serious way of bargaining but it does sound very effective! I will follow your advice and stick to my price along with making it clear that I'll buy on the spot if they accept my deal. Thanks for the tips!


Thanks for the folding bike recommendation

Thanks for the reply I am going back to my local shop to try the Classic since they have a few available. I have just sent an email to your sales team regarding an offer .

As regards how much discount you can reasonably expect, margins on ebikes tend to be smaller than on pushbikes.

The bike shop may have about £300 in a £1,100 bike.

You sound like a reasonable buyer, so will accept you need, to use an American phrase, to leave a little meat on the bone for the retailer.

What they are prepared to accept is up to them, but I doubt they will want to sell the bike for less than £150 gross profit.

I reckon a £150 discount for cash would be fair to both parties.

 

[kazumadesu]

As regards how much discount you can reasonably expect, margins on ebikes tend to be smaller than on pushbikes.

The bike shop may have about £300 in a £1,100 bike.

You sound like a reasonable buyer, so will accept you need, to use an American phrase, to leave a little meat on the bone for the retailer.

What they are prepared to accept is up to them, but I doubt they will want to sell the bike for less than £150 gross profit.

I reckon a £150 discount for cash would be fair to both parties.

Interesting, so if I wanted to get another £50 off, to get a total £150 discount, should I lowball them at a £200 discount? I completely understand why they wouldn't want to go lower especially if they're independent.

 

[Woosh]

Interesting, so if I wanted to get another £50 off, to get a total £150 discount, should I lowball them at a £200 discount? I completely understand why they wouldn't want to go lower especially if they're independent.

have pity on the shop owner!
He has rent, rates, wages, insurance ...

 

[RobF]

Interesting, so if I wanted to get another £50 off, to get a total £150 discount, should I lowball them at a £200 discount? I completely understand why they wouldn't want to go lower especially if they're independent.

Asking for £200 off and being prepared to settle for £150 is a reasonable strategy.

 

[Woosh]

Asking for £200 off and being prepared to settle for £150 is a reasonable strategy.

On an £1100 bike?
VAT: £183.33, ex VAT: £916
His gross margin is about 25% on £916 = £229.
Your credit card costs him 2%, £22.
He's spent money on your demo bike and maybe an hour on advising you.
Then he'll spend another hour to prep the bike for you.
Have pity on him.

 

[RobF]

I did advise the OP to 'leave some meat on the bone'.

Exact dealer margin is the unknown quantity, it could be 35 or 40%.

Nor does the dealer require pity, he will be perfectly capable of looking after himself.

It's only buying a bike, ask for £200 off, get offered £100 off - or whatever - job done.