Jivr folding chainless ebike on Kickstarter

[mfj197]

I haven't seen this one mentioned on here before: the Jivr ebike. It's a folder with the mechanical single-speed transmission inside the frame, 36V 9Ah battery also inside the frame and a front hub motor. Disk brakes, single-sided front and rear hubs (and seatpost!), bluetooth, less than 15kg. At full price it's not going to be cheap (stated as £1,999) but there are Kickstarter options for promoting the brand starting at £699.

Kickstarter page here and company webpage here.

I'm just finishing my own conversion but this is interesting!

Michael

 

[Croxden]

Another one you need a dam phone for.

 

[flecc]

The compact fold has been copied from VW's brilliant concept unpowered folder.
.

 

[mike killay]

So, the phrase,
We developed a state of the art mechanical chainless drivetrain,
Could mean that they designed and developed it, OR, they took an already existing design and developed it (i.e. made it fit in the frame)

 

[Kudoscycles]

The compact fold has been copied from VW's brilliant concept unpowered folder.
.

Flecc...I too have looked at that brilliant fold on the VW bike,the VW had no pedals or chain,only throttle/power drive....actually it's a shame that it isn't allowed exactly as VW built it,with a 5 Ah battery and say 15 mph speed ,10 mile range,it would be a simple design,great little city bike,if there were many recharge points to swop it if the battery runs out.
I picked it up at Shanghai,it was very light,less than 10 KGs and like any VW brilliantly engineered. I wonder whether VW would have developed it if they could sell it as a bike.
I have presented that fold to my suppliers engineers,it is the addition of pedals/gears/chain that adds to the complications and the weight.
Shame it cannot be sold as a bike just as VW designed it but we all know it would have to be registered as a moped.
The Jive is well known,the creator came into us to seek finance but it isn't far enough developed to consider it as a project,much of the presentation is computer generated graphics,hence why the guy has gone the kickstarter route.
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

So, the phrase,
We developed a state of the art mechanical chainless drivetrain,
Could mean that they designed and developed it, OR, they took an already existing design and developed it (i.e. made it fit in the frame)

No, not the drive Mike, as KudosDave indicates. It was just the fold that mimicked the VW concept. VW didn't get as far as a drive system.
.

 

[flecc]

Flecc...I too have looked at that brilliant fold on the VW bike,the VW had no pedals or chain,only throttle/power drive....
KudosDave

The simple answer for the VW fold design Dave is to have a small generator in the crank point, feeding the electrical system.

That should meet the pedelec requirement in the EU, pedal powered with 250 watt motor assistance.

Whether the generator provided much power wouldn't matter since we know it's the motor that's intended to provide the real drive. The EU doesn't specify what power the rider must exert!
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Tony....that is a brilliant idea....it would be relatively simple to engineer and overcomes all the complexity of chain/gears.....I am not an electrical expert,rather than the generator being a spoof to get round the pedelec rules could it provide enough power to offer a real contribution to the power to the motor?
Instead of 'fly by wire' ,we have 'pedal by wire'
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

Yes, it definitely would provide very useful power and I didn't intend a spoof only. In fact there has been a recent prototype all electric drive e-bike design which was reported in here. It's an inefficient drive method, perhaps only 70% to 80% efficient, but a bike with hub gears can be in the low 80% efficiency area so not too different
.

 

[mfj197]

I'm intrigued by the transmission on the Jivr. It's marketed as very efficient - I wonder if it's a driveshaft with gears for passing the drive through the fold. Although the frame between the bottom bracket and folding joint is curved, but perhaps you can just fit a straight shaft in there.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Flecc...have investigated the idea of a pedal generator to provide power to the hub motor.
There is the Mando Footloose,this uses a pedal driven alternator to provide top up power to the battery which then powers the hub motor....the bike is very expensive and mixed reviews,the criticisms are...
1. The efficiency of charging a battery by pedal power to drive the hub motor is said by some to be as low as 25 per cent,whereas a chain can be 90 per cent,is this true?
2. You can only use motor power to get up a hill,if the hill is too steep you cannot help by pedalling,that would mean that if the motor can't climb the hill you would have to push the bike up.
Could you use the generator to directly drive the rear hub motor,at least you could provide some rider power assistance,even if that assistance is not very efficient?
I cannot find a proper review of the Mando Footloose,which I find suspicious,anyone ridden one?
Which bike did you say had an efficient electric drive system,that would appear to be the Achilles heel of the concept?
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

Yes, charging a battery from a pedal generator can be very inefficient, but the power from the generator routed directly to the motor would be much more efficient, no wasteful conversion of electrical energy into the chemical potential in a battery.

Virtual diodes can at low cost ensure the power only goes to the motor without loss and with no current backrouted to the battery.

I didn't have in mind the Footloose system which seems odd to me, but I can't remember the identity of other prototype. That was a true generator-to-motor bike, not classed as an e-bike and not having a battery, it was simply a bike with electrical transmission instead of chain etc.
.

 

[patpatbut]

I am also curious about this project. Do you think the money they have will get them to succeed?

 

[Kudoscycles]

Flecc....thanks
KudosDave

 

[trex]

I am also curious about this project. Do you think the money they have will get them to succeed?

I reckon development costs will easily exceed £250k. They have so far got
£91,182 pledged on kickstarter and still 6 more days to go, should get to about £130k. My concern is that they only got 81 sales on this compaign, not enough to guarantee a future. I am sure they'll get bigger orders from the trade but would they have enough? I so wish they succeed, but reckon they''ll need to have pre-orders for at least 3 months worth of production run to organize initital supplies. For a bike company, that would be a minimum of 1000 bikes to start manufacturing, otherwise, after a few busy weeks, you'll have to lose people.

 

[patpatbut]

I reckon development costs will easily exceed £250k. They have so far got
£91,182 pledged on kickstarter and still 6 more days to go, should get to about £130k. My concern is that they only got 81 sales on this compaign, not enough to guarantee a future. I am sure they'll get bigger orders from the trade but would they have enough? I so wish they succeed, but reckon they''ll need to have pre-orders for at least 3 months worth of production run to organize initital supplies. For a bike company, that would be a minimum of 1000 bikes to start manufacturing, otherwise, after a few busy weeks, you'll have to lose people.

I checked they have already got the £160 from crowdcube

https://www.crowdcube.com/investment/jive-bike-jam-vehicles-ltd-13528

They have already used the money for the development. Hopefully the kickstarter money should get them for production

 

[trex]

https://www.crowdcube.com/investment/jive-bike-jam-vehicles-ltd-13528

very interesting read. Thanks Pat. Perhaps d8veh should start a new crowdcube project.

 

[Twangman]

@ kudo and fleck I'm still waiting to see if the stigobike http://stigobike.com/en will actually sell. Like the VW its a cute folding bike with a unique fold, weighing 13.5kg but is throttle only with a top speed of 15mph. The sticking point is that it is classed as L1e-B.

 

[trex]

biggest problem for these innovative e-folders is high price tag.

 

[flecc]

@ kudo and fleck I'm still waiting to see if the stigobike http://stigobike.com/en will actually sell. Like the VW its a cute folding bike with a unique fold, weighing 13.5kg but is throttle only with a top speed of 15mph. The sticking point is that it is classed as L1e-B.

So long as it's rated as 250 watts, since it's limited to 15.6 mph it's actually L1-A, so doesn't have to have a number plate, registration and insurance. It does have to be type approved though, but perhaps that has already been done, seeing that it's being ridden on roads in the video.
.