Jeremy Clarkson :- hub or crank

[Kudoscycles]

I am comparing the Bafang SWX against the BBS01 15A 250W / Bosch Active and the Bafang BPM 350W against the Bafang BBS01 18A 350W. They are about the most popular choices.
My opinon:
crank: quiet, efficient, light, nice weight distribution, good handling, easy maintenance and fast.
hub: noisy, inefficient, wrong weight distribution, poor handling, broken spokes and slow.

Perhaps a fair comparison would be the Bafang BPM hub motor against the TCM crank drive,they are both legal units,both made in China and both about the same cost price.
A similar fair comparison would be the KTM Bosch crank drive bikes against the KTM Panasonic hub drive bikes,again both legal units,both assembled in Austria and about the same selling price.
In both cases the hub motor is more powerful than the crank.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

dave, a fair comparison would be your Kudos Tourer against the Woosh Sirocco CDL, both have 700C wheels, both have probably the same Lishui 14A controller. Everybody knows the BPM is more powerful than the SWX. the BPM runs with 20A controllers, the SWX with 14/15A controllers. So the BPM should be matched against 18A crank drives. you know TCM make 18A 350W units too, but I don't have a unit to test. Numberwise, 8Fun are the most popular, so it's right to match the BPM against BBS01 18A 350W. I'd love to race you with a BBS01 18A 350W or a TCM Sport 18A 350W against your Tornado with a BPM motor.

 

[halfer]

If a bike goes at 20 without peddling then it is illegal.

If a bike were to peddle, what would it sell? Or would it be the rider doing the peddling? "Roll up, roll up, buy some lovely pedals! I'm pedalling my bike to peddle some pedals!"



/runs away

 

[derf]

dave, a fair comparison would be your Kudos Tourer against the Woosh Sirocco CDL, both have 700C wheels, both have probably the same Lishui 14A controller. Everybody knows the BPM is more powerful than the SWX. the BPM runs with 20A controllers, the SWX with 14/15A controllers. So the BPM should be matched against 18A crank drives. you know TCM make 18A 350W units too, but I don't have a unit to test. Numberwise, 8Fun are the most popular, so it's right to match the BPM against BBS01 18A 350W. I'd love to race you with a BBS01 18A 350W or a TCM Sport 18A 350W against your Tornado with a BPM motor.

TCM sport sounds good (except I wish they would make a torque sensor, surely it cant be that complex????) - where does one get one?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

TCM sport sounds good (except I wish they would make a torque sensor, surely it cant be that complex????) - where does one get one?

Why would you want one?

 

[1boris]

Isnt there already an answer for this ? at least for legal bikes.The panasonic erace P with HUB motor is from what I know the strongest hill climber?

 

[halfer]

I am in the camp of preferring crank drives, but I agree that they are not without their disadvantages. I know from personal experience that my Ave XH-3 stretches chains quite a bit. I think my last one lasted a year - and of course the cassette has to be replaced at the same time.

(I should, however, probably lubricate them more frequently!)

 

[derf]

Why would you want one?

i love crank drives, they make me feel bionic, or like I'm cycling on the moon - it's not exclusive to crank drives - i once tried a powerful Bionx in the states that offered something similar - but i like the fact that crank drives are geared - i know one can get two speed hub drives, but cranks can potter and speed and all at optimal efficiency. why could one possibly not want one? and if its TCM it might be cheap and i can produce a super Raleigh RSW that does 25mph and overtakes spandex types..

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I meant why would you want a torque sensor on a TCM.

 

[derf]

I meant why would you want a torque sensor on a TCM.

i find it feels more natural - on an impulse 2 kalkhof it makes for a natural - but very fast ride that feels bionic, on a TCM one feels as if one is on a tandem with someone who really isnt interested, at all, in whether one pedals or not. but we all have different ways of cycling. why would you not want one?

 

[trex]

i find it feels more natural - on an impulse 2 kalkhof it makes for a natural - but very fast ride that feels bionic, on a TCM one feels as if one is on a tandem with someone who really isnt interested, at all, in whether one pedals or not. but we all have different ways of cycling. why would you not want one?

you can change the Lishui LSW947 controller on your bike for a torque simulation one, http://www.bmsbattery.com/controller/545-s06-250w-imitation-torque-square-wave-controller.html

the torque sensor from Outrider may also be easy to fit to your bike:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/OR05D1-OutRider-3-12-magnets-e_2002272422.html

I know Woosh are looking into torque sensing for the CDs.

 

[derf]

you can change the Lishui LSW947 controller on your bike for a torque simulation one, http://www.bmsbattery.com/controller/545-s06-250w-imitation-torque-square-wave-controller.html

the torque sensor from Outrider may also be easy to fit to your bike:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/OR05D1-OutRider-3-12-magnets-e_2002272422.html

I know Woosh are looking into torque sensing for the CDs.

many thanks, - I had a look at the links and will see more, the only snag is that that looks like it requires fairly advanced electronic knowledge to fit..

 

[Gubbins]

Before bought the Scott I looked at converting my Genesis alfine 11 MTB with either a crank or hub drive. One of the selling points from the hub drive supplier was the 2 wheel drive idea when out in the muck, pedals pushing and front wheel pulling giving more stability ! How come this doesn't surface in the sometimes rather heated and personal hub v crank arguments? I have possible access to a bike to convert......

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Front wheel drive is very good. It would be interesting to try it with a torque sensor, so that you get true 2WD. If you have anything higher than a low torque motor in the front, the wheel tends to spin and skip when you start off and on steep climbs on a bad surface. It's not at all unsafe, though It can be a bit weird winding your way up a steep track with the wheel going faster than you are.

It would be interesting to work a front motor from a torque sensor and torque multiplication controller for true 2WD like my double motor bike, which has incredible traction..

 

[derf]

Before bought the Scott I looked at converting my Genesis alfine 11 MTB with either a crank or hub drive. One of the selling points from the hub drive supplier was the 2 wheel drive idea when out in the muck, pedals pushing and front wheel pulling giving more stability ! How come this doesn't surface in the sometimes rather heated and personal hub v crank arguments? I have possible access to a bike to convert......

but would a hub motor have the same torque as a crank motor working through low gears? having said that i once tried to plough through sand in a rohloff giant twist (panasonic crank) years ago. as expermients go it was a complete failure.

 

[Geebee]

A strong hub motor on the front can wash out the front wheel on gravel, The Ezee FWD I tried did this as I came out of a chicane at low speed PAS cut in as I turned and the front tried to slide out, experienced the same on an old bike, power came on to fast in the middle of a corner caught the bike by skidding my foot to hold it up.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

A high-torque motor can cause traction problems wherever it's fitted. Even not so powerful crank motors in bottom gear can give traction problems when climbing an uphill track. That's one of the problems of putting high torque through a narrow bicycle tyre. IMHO it's a lot safer to lose traction at the front because the bike can remain stable after the tyre's let go, while as when you lose traction at the back, it's 50/50 whether you go high-side and get tossed off.

The high-torque hub-motors like the Bafang CST/BPM, Ezee and others have more than enough to deal with sand if you have tyres that can give the necessary grip. There's no comparison with the old 26v Panasonic crank-drives, which by modern standards are gutless.

 

[martin@onbike]

Front wheel drive is very good. It would be interesting to try it with a torque sensor, so that you get true 2WD. If you have anything higher than a low torque motor in the front, the wheel tends to spin and skip when you start off and on steep climbs on a bad surface. It's not at all unsafe, though It can be a bit weird winding your way up a steep track with the wheel going faster than you are.

It would be interesting to work a front motor from a torque sensor and torque multiplication controller for true 2WD like my double motor bike, which has incredible traction..

BH Emotion have a new Dual motor variant of the Evo range of bikes they're soon to release....The Evo Snow 29er.

Torque sensor, 350w Rear and 250w Front Hub motors....currently 2999 euros, though not yet available in the UK.

Glad they've sorted out their spoke issues now, or this would be a nightmare!

 

[JohnCade]

it's 50/50 whether you go high-side and get tossed off.

.

Isn't that a variation on an old Max Millar joke?

 

[Croxden]

BH Emotion have a new Dual motor variant of the Evo range of bikes they're soon to release....The Evo Snow 29er.

Torque sensor, 350w Rear and 250w Front Hub motors....currently 2999 euros, though not yet available in the UK.

Glad they've sorted out their spoke issues now, or this would be a nightmare!
View attachment 9326

So you do know how to tempt me!