It had to happen one day .

RoadieRoger

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2010
726
200
Someone who remains Anonymous has posted in the MCN Legal questions section today that he is being prosecuted for having no Insurance on his Ebike . Apparently he collided with a bus and he says that when he bought it, the Supplier said it was road legal as a cycle . The Legal person replying , said it must have been more than 200Watts and gives a bit of Chapter and Verse and concludes that the cyclist is unlikely to succeed in defending the case .
What a pity Anonymous hasn`t posted on the Forum that matters, he might have had advice that could possibly have helped him ! The feeling on here has generally been that having an accident could well draw to the attention of the Law any non- legal Ebike activities .Obviously not enough information is known about this case .
 

lemmy

Esteemed Pedelecer
As you say, whatever the veracity of this, it is bound to happen sooner or later. If you up the power beyond the legal limit you are riding without tax or insurance.

It is the same principal as with my air rifle. I could tune it easily beyond the 12ft lb legal limit but if I do I will need a Fire Arms Certificate to keep it legal. If I tune it but don't obtain an FAC then I am in possession of (what has now become) an illegal firearm.

The defence that you didn't know is no defence at all in law.
 

Mussels

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 17, 2008
3,207
8
Crowborough
There are too many unknowns to comment but if I was looking for reliable information I would definately not turn to MCN, it's like reading the Sunday Sport to find out about moon landings.
 

NRG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 6, 2009
2,592
10
I'm sure they (the Sunday Sport) reported to have found a ditched Lancaster bomber on the moon many years back :D
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,196
30,602
The fact that 200 watts has been mentioned probably suggests a prosecution will be under the British EAPC regulations of 1983. In my view that would be an unlawful prosecution since those EAPC regulations appear to be invalid since the EU lawfully ordered the UK government to scrap national regulations on type approval of e-bikes by 9th November 2003.

Therefore a full defence can be mounted.

Here in a nutshell is the EU position on our UK law, I've highlighted bold the most important sections:
***********************************************************************
The EU-Directive 2002/24/EC concerning the Type approval for two and three wheeled vehicles has been released by the European Parliament and the Council on March 18, 2002. Applicable November 9, 2003 in all EU Member States.

Until May 9, 2003 the current national regulations concerning the status of pedelecs will remain unchanged. After May 9, 2003, the EU Member States have the choice of either keeping their current regulations for another 6 months or changing over to the EU-directive.

By November 9, 2003 all Members of the EU are required to integrate this Directive into their national legislation and abolish their previous regulations.
***********************************************************************
End of extract.

This concerns Type Approval, but since the EU regulation clearly specifies that e-bikes are exempted from type approval as motor vehicles, just as clearly they do not have to have third party motor vehicle insurance.

Therefore the legal argument is as follows:

The EU 2002/EC24 order made unlawful the British EAPC regulations since 10th November 2003.

This legal argument has two supporting statements:

1) The DfT (Department for Transport) has long been preparing new legislation but that is prevented from completion awaiting the latest EU measures. This indicates that the lawful EU regulations in this area have primacy over UK ones as made clear in order 2002/24EC.

2) The DfT have archived the consumer advice web pages on the 1983 EAPC regulations, clearly showing that they are no longer valid for consumer guidance. This is a de facto acknowledgement of their doubtful status in law.

Faced with these arguments I very much doubt any magistrates court would risk convicting, it is far more likely they'd take one of the following options in order of likelyhood.

1) Dismiss the prosecution on the grounds of it being invalid.

2) Acquit on the grounds that the legal position was uncertain.

3) Refer the case to a higher court. Here I still believe the defence would succeed.

Of course this means the legality of the e-bike in question does not matter, it could have any motor size, be any weight and have an independently acting throttle, since these are not in question. The only thing being challenged is the legality of the prosecution.

Of course if the bike was illegal, having the case thrown out would leave the police free to open a new and lawful prosecution on that. However, having lost first time there's a chance they would satisfy themselves with a standard cautionary letter, advising the defendant of his obligations in law, since these letters usually do not spell out the law in question.
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lemmy

Esteemed Pedelecer
I'm sure they (the Sunday Sport) reported to have found a ditched Lancaster bomber on the moon many years back
It was a spoof, humorous story, of course. I'm sure someone, somewhere took it seriously but as the saying goes, whatever it is someone somewhere will take it too seriously.
 

RoadieRoger

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2010
726
200
Thanks Flecc for your comprehensive answer , I am attempting to find out more details on the case . In some instances the` Law is an Ass `, this could be one of them . It could have happened to one of us !
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,196
30,602
Indeed it could, hence my answer to encourage anyone caught to challenge and not just roll over.

A surprising number of prosecutions of lesser issues are unlawfully brought, something I know only too well from many years past of successfully supporting young people facing wrongly issued police prosecutions.