Is there any hub drive bike worth paying more than £1700?

[Kudoscycles]

The e-bike market is clearly focusing on distinct price points...the cheap bikes,often direct internet sellers(no dealer margin)up to about £700. A mid price group of better quality equipment usually with dealer facilities up to about £1300,still mainly hub drive. The top end usually with Bosch or Panasonic crank drive,often with dealer facilities £1700 plus.
But I dont see a place now for expensive hub drive bikes,what do members think?
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[funkylyn]

I certainly cant think of any hub drive bike at the moment being worth over £1700.

However, if a bike came along that was truly lightweight and with a good realistic range, realistically priced replacement batteries and an innovative design, then I cant see why there would not be a market for it.

I cant see any reason why the top end of the market should be solely restricted to crank drive bikes.


Lynda

 

[GaRRy]

I certainly cant think of any hub drive bike at the moment being worth over £1700.

Storck Radder

BH Neo

Specialized Turbo

Do agree that most top end bikes will probably end up as crank ones but dont assume that Hubs wont fight back and also there are some of us who currently just dont personally like crank drive bikes.

 

[eddieo]

BULLS Green Mover - E-Bike, EBike, Elektrofahrrad, Elektro Bikes, MTB, Mountainbike, Cross Fahrrad, City Bike, Elektrorad, Bulls Greenmover, e bikes, ebikes, Elektro-Fahrrad

ElektroRad 1/2012: Bulls Green Mover Sportslite Plus - YouTube

Storck Raddar - Electric Bikes Storck Raddar - Finest quality electric assist bicycles in the world - Ebikes

CUBE*EPO Nature FE

new Panasonic hub drive so far on Swiss Flyer and KTM:

eRace P650

FLYER Vollblut - Designed for Ecoists

plus anything with Go-Swiss drive

and again another new drive from Panasonic:

Mid Drive; The Creamy Hub Motor Alternative | ELECTRICBIKE.COM

(crossed with Garrys post) I like both systems, and will continue to have both for the foreseeable. will always be a place for cheaper hub systems

 

[funkylyn]

Storck Radder

BH Neo

Specialized Turbo

Do agree that most top end bikes will probably end up as crank ones but dont assume that Hubs wont fight back and also there are some of us who currently just dont personally like crank drive bikes.

The only one of those that comes close for me is the BH Neo......but I think the replacement batteries are very expensive ?

I just think it would have to be very special and innovative......and of course....easily available in this country...... to justify the higher price band.

I still think that any bike well over £1700 would have to prove to me the validity of a much higher price in comparison to the many decent sub £1k hub drives around.

Having just had a quick look around Im surprised to see that a certain well known model is priced around £1800/1900 and STILL weighs in at between 25 and 27 kgs !!

That to me is taking the p and totally unjustifiable ................I dont care HOW good their after sales service is.......paying that price I would hope that I would never have need of it

Lynda

 

[flecc]

It's not easy to generalise on this for the following reasons.

I see no reason why there shouldn't be e-bikes based on high-end normal road or off-road bikes which alone can cost many thousands of pounds, and Cytronex have gone a small part of the way down this route.

Another justification is the e-bike using the latest developments in high tech materials like composites in it's construction, of necessity expensive to produce.

Then there's the e-bike introducing a new way of implementing the motor etc, which being small scale at the beginning will have to be expensive initially to cover R & D.

Each new battery development tends to be expensive initially and therefore has to be used on the more expensive bikes to bury the battery price effectively, pushing up the total package price.

And of course all the above are small scale in production and sales, again making high prices unavoidable.

Finally selling through dealers has to add very substantially to the final price since the dealer rightly demands a satisfactory margin for stocking and supporting the bikes. I doubt dealers would be happy with less than 30% on e-bikes.

But if we are speaking of an internet sold average alloy framed typically specified bike with a mass production motor like the Suzhou Bafang models, it's difficult to justify high prices.

 

[Jimod]

............I dont care HOW good their after sales service is.......paying that price I would hope that I would never have need of it

Lynda

We all hope we don't need their support no mater how much we pay for bikes but a company with a known 'good' level of support is always worth paying a premium for. It gives you confidence in their product.

 

[funkylyn]

We all hope we don't need their support no mater how much we pay for bikes but a company with a known 'good' level of support is always worth paying a premium for. It gives you confidence in their product.

Well...I dont know, I think in some circumstances that could be debatable.

For an example, if for instance I was to pay £1900 for a bike, including good after sales service, and just say that the bike was , spec wise, no better than one costing, lets say £800- £1200 when would it be more prudent to either a. take the risk or b. insure against things going wrong ??

Also.....whats to say that the cheaper bike doesn't have reasonable after sales too ?

We all want good after sales service but it doesnt necessarily follow that the dearer the bike the better the service, the bikes should be judged against each other by value for money,quality and spec first and foremost.

Lynda

 

[Jimod]

We all want good after sales service but it doesnt necessarily follow that the dearer the bike the better the service, the bikes should be judged against each other by value for money,quality and spec first and foremost.

Lynda

Similar spec bikes from different companies tend not to have huge differences in price. But on a personal basis, I don't mind paying a bit more to buy from a company with a proven good customer support.

 

[funkylyn]

Thats where we are differing , because, I think that there are some bikes around in the higher price bracket that do not warrant as high a difference in price as £3/500 in some cases from, for example, some Ezee or Kudos designs

There seem to be some chinese type bikes around that are creeping up to , in my mind, unacceptably high prices of nearly £2k.....I think that is crazy.

Which gets me back to my first comments that hub motor bikes priced at well over £1700, in some cases, well over £2k, in my mind should be showing some sign of innovation.....much lower weight for sure.....like the Stork Raddar or a more interesting in frame battery design like the BH Neo.......but I would still want more from a bike costing over £2k.

However, that is immaterial because I cannot see myself ever wanting to pay over £2k for a bike when I am, after all, just a recreational cyclist and quite happy with what I have at the moment.

Lynda

 

[morphix]

The e-bike market is clearly focusing on distinct price points...the cheap bikes,often direct internet sellers(no dealer margin)up to about £700. A mid price group of better quality equipment usually with dealer facilities up to about £1300,still mainly hub drive. The top end usually with Bosch or Panasonic crank drive,often with dealer facilities £1700 plus.
But I dont see a place now for expensive hub drive bikes,what do members think?
Dave
Kudoscycles

I'm not sure about hub drive and how that fits into pricing, the way I see it, I just look at the bike and what I want it for, whether it presents good value for money etc. I think just as with any items, there are different target markets for any given product. There's always going to be a market for high end priced e-bikes and people willing to pay those prices, if the bikes offer something in terms of quality or performance which cheaper bikes can't offer. Or maybe it's just a brand thing, and some people perceive certain bikes or components as being worth paying a price premium for.

The problem with high end priced bikes I think from a business or marketing prospective is that it limits your target market and makes the bikes less mainstream. Maybe that's a problem for some businesses which could limit growth, maybe it's a benefit and means less problems with things going wrong/returns etc.. I don't know.

Some businesses try to cater for all customers in the market from top end consumers to the cheap unbranded bargain hunters. Why limit yourself to a certain section of the market unless you want to specialise?

 

[GaRRy]

The only one of those that comes close for me is the BH Neo......but I think the replacement batteries are very expensive ?

I just think it would have to be very special and innovative......and of course....easily available in this country...... to justify the higher price band.

I still think that any bike well over £1700 would have to prove to me the validity of a much higher price in comparison to the many decent sub £1k hub drives around.

Having just had a quick look around Im surprised to see that a certain well known model is priced around £1800/1900 and STILL weighs in at between 25 and 27 kgs !!

That to me is taking the p and totally unjustifiable ................I dont care HOW good their after sales service is.......paying that price I would hope that I would never have need of it

Lynda

Thanks for not upsetting me Lynn . NEO's batteries are not any worse than a lot of others although obviously not as cheap as ones for the budget end of the market.

As for the rest of your argument it is obvious you feel you would not spend £1700 on any bike let alone a hub motored one which is a completely different argument all together to the one the OP asked.

 

[GORDONAL]

I am a personal fan of crank drive BUT probably along with at least 99% of the folks on here we have not tried the rear drive systems from Panasonic, BionX and Kalkhoff that on spec alone seem worthy of consideration .
Whether any bike is worth £1700 + can only be decided by the rider of that bike I do detect a small but significant and maybe increasing number of owners in this category.

Alan

 

[funkylyn]

Thanks for not upsetting me Lynn . NEO's batteries are not any worse than a lot of others although obviously not as cheap as ones for the budget end of the market.

As for the rest of your argument it is obvious you feel you would not spend £1700 on any bike let alone a hub motored one which is a completely different argument all together to the one the OP asked.

As for the point I am trying to make, I think once a hub drive gets to over £1700 it would have to be very special to get my interest and the main thing for me would be way less weight.

I was happy paying £1300 for mine and accepting that in that price range I could not get it weighing any less, but the crank drive and the throttle made up for that......for me

Every purchase is a compromise but at over £2k I wouldnt be willing to compromise on as much.

And I think I did answer what the OP originally asked....ie ...yes there is a place for an over £1700 hub drive bike IF it weighed less etc etc...........

I appreciate that crank drive isnt necessarily the be all and end all of electric bikes.
In fact there IS a bike that is tempting me at the moment and its a hub drive......but I would want it "tweaked "

Lynda

 

[GORDONAL]

Pray tell which hub-drive Lynda!!!!

 

[GaRRy]

As for the point I am trying to make, I think once a hub drive gets to over £1700 it would have to be very special to get my interest and the main thing for me would be way less weight.

But that is surely true for a crank drive bike as well ?

 

[morphix]

As for the point I am trying to make, I think once a hub drive gets to over £1700 it would have to be very special to get my interest and the main thing for me would be way less weight.

I was happy paying £1300 for mine and accepting that in that price range I could not get it weighing any less, but the crank drive and the throttle made up for that......for me

Every purchase is a compromise but at over £2k I wouldnt be willing to compromise on as much.

And I think I did answer what the OP originally asked....ie ...yes there is a place for an over £1700 hub drive bike IF it weighed less etc etc...........

I appreciate that crank drive isnt necessarily the be all and end all of electric bikes.
In fact there IS a bike that is tempting me at the moment and its a hub drive......but I would want it "tweaked "

Lynda

I agree about the weight Lynda.. normally cheaper bikes are associated with heavier weight (i.e. more than 21kg)..and that's usually the trade-off. For such a high price, one would expect state of the art technology both on the bike and in the battery and something super light. Weight is obviously a concern for most owners, not only does it affect riding performance but also you have to lift and carry the damn things sometimes!

I read a site somewhere a few days ago about someones self-build project and he was focused on keeping the weight down..he said once you get to a maximum reasonable weight (eg 17-20kg) every 100g saved above that is worth a high price premium and that price increases proportionately. I think that's how many see or would justify a high price on an e-bike...has the manufacturer kept the weight down but maintained high quality?

Else it comes to like you said, after sales service.. are you merely buying a cheap bike but paying for after service you might not even need? How self-serviceable is the bike..how long is the guarantee on the battery and how much would a replacement cost etc?

 

[funkylyn]

Pray tell which hub-drive Lynda!!!!

Not until or IF I get it .......dont want anyone jumping in before me

Lynda

 

[funkylyn]

But that is surely true for a crank drive bike as well ?

Yes it absolutely certainly is, but I was trying to keep relevant to the OP's question

Lynda

 

[morphix]

Another thing about expensive (and heavy) bikes.. if most of the cost is in a big battery (15Ah or 20Ah) is that really an economic and sensible buy? You have to give some thought to whether you will use that much battery capacity..if you will use half that capacity you're basically paying for redundant capacity on a battery which is a fairly limited usable lifespan. Makes no sense? My thinking is, you can always buy more capacity if you need to travel further distances and can't recharge..but you can't reclaim lost money on redundant over capacity...