Is my TCM motor on the way out?

[John F]

I have a Woosh Santana CDL with a TCM motor which has done 2,200 miles. Recently the motor has become more noisy, together with an appearance of some vibration.

It's most evident when running on throttle only. The noise is not a constant slight whine anymore, but a sort of whirr, whirr noise. The vibration varies in sync with the sound. There is also a "graunching" noise when starting to pedal, which is alarming

As far as I can see, everything is still screwed together correctly. Also, the noise decreases slightly after doing some miles (after the motor has warmed up?)

I note there is a plate on the motor with 4 screws on which seems to allow for some maintenance (?) Is any maintenance possible on this motor? I suspect the internal motor gears might be worn?

Any ideas anyone?

 

[derf]

I have a Woosh Santana CDL with a TCM motor which has done 2,200 miles. Recently the motor has become more noisy, together with an appearance of some vibration.

It's most evident when running on throttle only. The noise is not a constant slight whine anymore, but a sort of whirr, whirr noise. The vibration varies in sync with the sound. There is also a "graunching" noise when starting to pedal, which is alarming

As far as I can see, everything is still screwed together correctly. Also, the noise decreases slightly after doing some miles (after the motor has warmed up?)

I note there is a plate on the motor with 4 screws on which seems to allow for some maintenance (?) Is any maintenance possible on this motor? I suspect the internal motor gears might be worn?

Any ideas anyone?

i have a santa ana with around 1500 miles aftr 10 months and identical symptoms - it was worse in winter - and specifically during teh first few miles on coldmornings after which it would dissapear. My very strong hunch was that it may have something to do with grease in the gears - because it dissapears completely once thinsg have churned a bit

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Check that the motor is still bolted in tight. There were a couple of reports of it coming a bit loose. Grab hold of the motor and give it a good heave-ho in all directions to see if you can detect any movement.

 

[trex]

If you want to grease the motor yourself, then read on. You will need a kind of spider tool to undo the lock ring that holds the chain ring in place while the chain ring is immobilized. If you don't have the spider tool, a mallet and a punch will probably do. After that, you may need an impact screwdirver with an M4 Allen bit to remove the 6 M4 screws that hold the cover of the gearbox. After removing the cover, you see a single stage gear reducer. The small helical cog wheel is driven by the motor shaft, the large helical cog wheel drives the chain ring. Remove the circlip that holds the large helical cog wheel, remove the cog then clean and grease the ball bearing underneath. If you don't have the tools or can't do this yourself, contact support at Woosh.

Remove lock ring first

Inside view. Clean and regrease the bearings. The smallest ball bearing in the middle is the sprag clutch.

 

[John F]

Thanks for this guys. Some further info and musings:-

1) A very basic question! Which is the motor and which is the gearbox? (The black tubular component with a cover plate attached with 4 screws ? - what is lurking under this plate?)
2) The chain wheel/lock ring, when rotated backwards when the bike is stationery, makes a ker ker ker type of sound. I would have thought dry bearings would be more of a constant noise?
3) The black tubular component is certainly fixed firmly, no issue there
4) I'm not very keen on getting a mallet to the job. Reminds me too much of the good days of trying to remove cotter pins from cranks!
5) Is is common to have these motors under greased?

 

[John F]

I apologise! The black thing is the motor?

 

[trex]

the motor is the cylindrical thing with the wire attached. The gearbox is essentially the big heavy helical cog in the lower middle part of the image.
If the cranks make a little clicking noise when you rotate backward (exluding the chain noise) then the sprags need cleaning and grease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprag_clutch

 

[John F]

And the cover plate with 4 screws?

 

[trex]

the two plates (bottom left and bottom right) form the box of the gearbox. The motor fits into the smaller circle (left of the bottom right plate) with 3 M5 screws.

 

[John F]

I don't follow. These are the 4 screws i am referring to.

 

[trex]

those 4 screws hold the casing of the motor. You don't need to touch them.
If in doubt, ask Andy @ woosh. He would know.

 

[John F]

If this motor/gearbox is "user servicable" i.e. needs periodic greasing, then logically there should be a "manual" to do it? Contacted Woosh to see what they suggest. At the moment I don't feel like riding it until it's regreased or whatever else needs doing for fear of damaging it.

 

[trex]

motors are not user serviceable but some of us like to tinker.

 

[derf]

motors are not user serviceable but some of us like to tinker.

I've been in touch with Woosh who agreed to grease the crank drive for me (i'm not at all sure I am capable of this level of technical work without causing more problems) - it's a good deal, i think, one pasy for sending teh bike to them per courier they use, £30 is the cost, and they send it back on their cost. I know it's chinese, and not expensive, but this does seem pretty good support (the battery was replaced with a brand new battery no questions asked a month ago), and better than some other horror stories i read about much more expensive german bikes here

 

[derf]

I've been in touch with Woosh who agreed to grease the crank drive for me (i'm not at all sure I am capable of this level of technical work without causing more problems) - it's a good deal, i think, one pasy for sending teh bike to them per courier they use, £30 is the cost, and they send it back on their cost. I know it's chinese, and not expensive, but this does seem pretty good support (the battery was replaced with a brand new battery no questions asked a month ago), and better than some other horror stories i read about much more expensive german bikes here

strictly for what its worth, if anyone else out there with a Santa Ana, I've got mine back, it's running quiet, all's back to normal, I can well recommend having this done, feels like its good for another 1500 miles

 

[John F]

Woosh sent me a reconditioned motor for me to install for £60. I noticed when taking it out of the box that there was a liberal amount of grease in the bearing area, unlike the dodgy one that seemed to be completely dry. Conclusion = it wasn't greased properly in the first place?

After 600 miles it is still very quiet and working fine (probably more so that the dodgy one ever was?)

 

[derf]

Woosh sent me a reconditioned motor for me to install for £60. I noticed when taking it out of the box that there was a liberal amount of grease in the bearing area, unlike the dodgy one that seemed to be completely dry. Conclusion = it wasn't greased properly in the first place?

After 600 miles it is still very quiet and working fine (probably more so that the dodgy one ever was?)

i wonder whether they in fact did this with mine? since getting it back it's virtually silent but the power delivery feels slightly different - somehow more gentle - which I don't mind, its still perfectly adequate.

 

[trex]

there is a serial number on the cover of the gearbox, as seen from the non drive side. Anyhow, a bit of grease goes a long way to smooth things. The TCM is a lot easier to grease than the BBS01/02.

 

[derf]

there is a serial number on the cover of the gearbox, as seen from the non drive side. Anyhow, a bit of grease goes a long way to smooth things. The TCM is a lot easier to grease than the BBS01/02.

many thanks, unfortunately I never recorded the original number.

as an aside - ive happily started really enjoying meandering to and back from work again on the santa ana (it almost makes autumn/winter setting in a beautiful experience I find), HOWEVER, I live in a place with potholes the size and depth of buckets, everywhere, and their unavoidable after dark.

I've gone and cracked the rear battery rack/luggage carrier - one of the alloy cross members have completely sheared off. In an ideal world a knowledgeable, expert forum member will have found an easy way to rivnut a rear carrier rack battery to a frame at the bottle battery mounts - this would make the centre of gravity much lower than before (I find bikes like the santa ana with batteries on carrier racks tippy, specially when loaded with stuff on top of this) and allow me to put a normal carrier rack on that can take side baskets.

alternatively does anyone know where I can find a new rack? woosh is only getting ones in in a month or so. Other than this after well over a year and 1500 miles im really happy with it, it's reliable and very relaxing

 

[trex]

I would send a picture to Andy @ Woosh and ask him for advice. In the meantime, I recommend using picture hanging brass wire to secure the crack in the weld.