Is global warming the con of the century?

Before I comment I believe that we are throwing all sorts of rubbish into the atmosphere and I always get a sore throat every time I go to Guangzhou in China,Beijing looks worse smog so I am very supportive of cleaning up the air. Some of us I am sure remember the awful London smogs on the fifties,prior to smokeless fuels,we wouldn't want to return to those days.

But,there seems to be so many vested commercial interests in overcoming so called global warming....governments find it very easy to tax,the nuclear industry,the solar industry,the wind farm industry etc.....go to governments to say that you want a grant to prove that global warming is a con and you will be a pauper scientist.

Quite frankly I am not sure but the weight of money vested in proving that we are wrecking our planet with global warming is not balanced with the other view. I have many very intelligent friends who think it is a con,I am also leaning in that direction.

KudosDave

Before I comment I believe that we are throwing all sorts of rubbish into the atmosphere and I always get a sore throat every time I go to Guangzhou in China,Beijing looks worse smog so I am very supportive of cleaning up the air. Some of us I am sure remember the awful London smogs on the fifties,prior to smokeless fuels,we wouldn't want to return to those days.

But,there seems to be so many vested commercial interests in overcoming so called global warming....governments find it very easy to tax,the nuclear industry,the solar industry,the wind farm industry etc.....go to governments to say that you want a grant to prove that global warming is a con and you will be a pauper scientist.

Quite frankly I am not sure but the weight of money vested in proving that we are wrecking our planet with global warming is not balanced with the other view. I have many very intelligent friends who think it is a con,I am also leaning in that direction.

KudosDave

If it’s a con cui bono? We all know who benefits from pumping more emissions into the atmosphere. It’s big oil and all their friends in governments around the world. They pay so called experts to rubbish the facts and pretend it isn’t happening. Just like the tobacco industry did for decades after the cancer link was established.

95% of experts in the field accept that human activity has contributed to the fact that the world is warming; and global warming is an established fact. Glaciers and ice shelves and permafrost isn’t melting by itself. Five of the warmest years on record occurred in this century. The slowdown in warming which deniers clung to over a ten year period has been shown to be because the oceans have warmed faster that the atmosphere. Which means that sea levels will rise faster than models previously predicted.

As more energy is being put into weather systems by warming, wind and rainfall records around the world are being broken yearly. How can anyone not know that it is happening?

I can well believe that 95% of the world's experts can show the world is warming.

Is human activity contributing to climate change? If so,to what degree?

Personally I don't think the experts have answered that.

Edited December 12, 201510 yr by robert44

There's no question it is happening, the argument is are we causing it. It has happened many times in the past as can be shown but it's the rapid rate it is going at now that is alarming.

Only the Clarkson's of this world are blinkered.

As a teenager I remember lovely balmy summers and very cold winters,now we seem to have milder winters,it seems windier and more rain but is this caused by us or is it a cyclic movement of the planet,that is happening naturally.

The ice age wasn't caused by some human input,what caused that? 90% of the worlds scientists say that it's caused by greenhouse gasses causing global warming but these guys are paid to say that and are going to make a fortune to come up with solutions to change something that may be occurring naturally.

There are going to be fortunes made building new systems to try to reduce the temperature which may make no difference.

As I say clean up the air and stop throwing rubbish up into the atmosphere that is very valid....anyone who has ever visited China knows that it's like standing inside a translucent grey plastic bowl,a nice summers day is very rare,quite an event to see blue sky and the sun.

But global warming caused by us I am not convinced.

KudosDave

I find it very hard to accept that we are not fully, or at least in a big part responsible for global warming, climate change, call it what you will.

The burning of fossil fuels, all the crap and emissions that has gone into our atmosphere, the burying of waste and the vast deforestation simply has to have a big effect on the planet.

I can well believe that 95% of the world's experts can show the world is warming.

Is human activity contributing to climate change? If so,to what degree?

Personally I don't think the experts have answered that.

No 95% of climate scientists agree that mankind is contributing to global warming. Absolutely everyone is agreed that warming is happening. It’s shown by comparing the proportion of warming gases in the atmosphere in the past from ice and wood samples with current levels. Nothing else but carbon burning could be the cause and the last time I looked it wasn’t the lions or tigers who were burning the planet’s carbon reserves.

I find it very hard to accept that we are not fully, or at least in a big part responsible for global warming, climate change, call it what you will.

The burning of fossil fuels, all the crap and emissions that has gone into our atmosphere, the burying of waste and the vast deforestation simply has to have a big effect on the planet.

It's just there doesn't seem to be a balance on the discussion,the conference in Paris seems to accept that it is us,without any input to the viewpoint that it may not be.

I repeat what caused the ice age?

Governments act in an awful lot of self interest and the power of communications and media do tend to sway the public...

There are a number of cons going on at the moment...

Workplace pensions...in my various businesses I am compelled to provide a workplace pension,I don't mind,but I am told that I cannot influence my employees decision. There are wonderful graphs showing a 5% compound lift that show they are going to get a wonderful pension at the end,those graphs don't look so good on 1% or negative lift,but 25 years later who can complain. The government are determined to move the responsibility of looking after us when we are old over to employers.

Heathrow airport....why Heathrow? Stansted and Luton are only working at 60% capacity,why not move flights there but the cynic in me says that the revenue/tax will not be attractive.

HS2...... To save 10 mins London to Birmingham we are going to rip up the countryside. But the gateway to our country is the South East. HS1 goes to St Pancras. HS1 will only be half a mile from HS2 at Euston.

Anyone who has has travelled from the South East to the North knows you fly to St Pancras,tow your bag St Pancras to Euston,then wait half an hour at Euston for your connect to the north.

Scrap HS2 and join St Pancras to Euston,with through trains Dover to Birmingham,save 30 mins journey time. But the government won't be able to sell lucrative new licences for HS2.

That's why I am so suspicious about global warming,it could just all be about money.

KudosDave

No 95% of climate scientists agree that mankind is contributing to global warming. Absolutely everyone is agreed that warming is happening. It’s shown by comparing the proportion of warming gases in the atmosphere in the past from ice and wood samples with current levels. Nothing else but carbon burning could be the cause and the last time I looked it wasn’t the lions or tigers who were burning the planet’s carbon reserves.

But I thought that they are only recording Arctic ice where it is melting,I am told that the ice sheet is expanding elsewhere....it is moving that's all.

Sorry John,but there are many scientists that say over the last 20 years the world has cooled slightly,but the global warming experts say this is a blip in the warming trend.

Not everyone is agreed that warming is happening but the ones who say it is have a bigger well funded voice than the others who think the contrary.

Are we all being conned?

I would like to hear some of the evidence to the contrary to be able to make a balanced decision.

Why should the world be a constant,as I say what caused the ice age....no human input into that event.

KudosDave

As a teenager I remember lovely balmy summers and very cold winters,now we seem to have milder winters,it seems windier and more rain but is this caused by us or is it a cyclic movement of the planet,that is happening naturally.

The ice age wasn't caused by some human input,what caused that? 90% of the worlds scientists say that it's caused by greenhouse gasses causing global warming but these guys are paid to say that and are going to make a fortune to come up with solutions to change something that may be occurring naturally.

There are going to be fortunes made building new systems to try to reduce the temperature which may make no difference.

As I say clean up the air and stop throwing rubbish up into the atmosphere that is very valid....anyone who has ever visited China knows that it's like standing inside a translucent grey plastic bowl,a nice summers day is very rare,quite an event to see blue sky and the sun.

But global warming caused by us I am not convinced.

KudosDave

Climate engineering is what big industry would like to do to combat the problem. But just like introducing rabbits into Australia the effects would be unknown.

The solution is to drastically reduce carbon emissions and that can only realistically be done by ending the economic growth model. Climate change is just one of the many malign effects upon the world’s ecosystem caused by ballooning population. We are also using up the world’s drinking water and food supplies.

If we stopped all the emissions now including methane from cattle the planet would still warm by over 2 degrees by the end of the century. But we won’t because we can’t, so it will warm by much more. This will trigger off more permafrost melting in higher latitudes and so release more co 2 which has been trapped there for millions of years. So starting a feedback loop which might well result in runaway warming making this planet uninhabitable by creatures anything like us.

There is no real political will to make the kind of changes necessary to contain it, because political timeframes are short and any democratic government which made the changes needed would not survive the next election. So the thinking is that in the long run we will all be dead, and someone else can deal with the mess.

I have thought for the at least the last three decades that by the way we as a species have raped the Earth we have set ourselves on a course for extinction. But the planet is not in any great danger, we are. The ecosystems will probably stabilise in time just as they have from periods in the past when the seas were highly acidic, and the atmosphere more full of co 2 than now due to the age of the great volcanic eruptions. That period saw almost all life except some in the seas and deep earth become extinct, and we are living through a new great age of extinction now. Caused by the overbreeding and spread and hunger for resources of mankind.

So yes the planet is warming, and yes it’s caused my human activity this time. I’m only glad that I’m not young enough to live through the resources wars and human population movements and famines of the next few decades. I think it’s much more likely that any survivors in a hundred or so years will be illiterate goat herders than living in any kind of technological civilisation.

Edited December 12, 201510 yr by JohnCade

Agent Smith from The Matrix doesn't fancy our chances much.......

But I thought that they are only recording Arctic ice where it is melting,I am told that the ice sheet is expanding elsewhere....it is moving that's all.

Sorry John,but there are many scientists that say over the last 20 years the world has cooled slightly,but the global warming experts say this is a blip in the warming trend.

Not everyone is agreed that warming is happening but the ones who say it is have a bigger well funded voice than the others who think the contrary.

Are we all being conned?

I would like to hear some of the evidence to the contrary to be able to make a balanced decision.

Why should the world be a constant,as I say what caused the ice age....no human input into that event.

KudosDave

As I said in the last ten years up until last year when the warming trend continued, the atmosphere did not warm. But it didn’t cool. As I also said this has now been found to be the result of the oceans absorbing more heat than was realised. But that is a finite effect so atmospheric warming will soon start to take off again in a big way.

There are many good sources of information available and a lot of paid rent a gob stooges who put the anti science case. But the people who believe that stuff want to believe it, and mankind's greatest capacity is for self deception. I suggest that the facts are there if you want to find them.

The way I look at is if you were very ill, would you go to a doctor who practised modern scientific medicine and take his word for what needed to be done. Or would you believe what some bloke had written on the internet or what your friends tell you in a pub? So why do people ignore what the experts in the field say about this in favour of what paid stooges and apologists for the oil and coal tar industries say?

I remember in the seventies after a period of particularly cold winters the climate 'experts' said we were about to enter a new ice age.

In 2013 some of the most pro the global warming team had to admit that their predictions were way off and quickly changed to more conservative predictions. If you google 'global warming con' there are many references from knowledgable scientists who say that we may have got it badly wrong...David Bellamy got vilified when he stuck his head above the parapet and suggested otherwise.

It's just that Paris seems to say it's a done deal,before we cover our world with very inefficient windmills and dangerous nuclear power stations I just think the contrarian view should have been considered.

As I say,I am all for cleaning up our planet and stop destroying the rain forests and coral beds but am not convinced that global warming is being caused by us.

The Chinese and Indians will use this conference to force massive contributions from the developed world to help them clean up their energy development as if the Chinese are not already a developed nation.

KudosDave

What the changes are is still in question, but changes there certainly are.

Whether the changes are entirely, partially or only slightly caused by human actions is also still in question.

Only time will fully answer both those questions.

But meanwhile like KudosDave I am somewhat suspicious of some aspects of the propaganda. It's all to easy to put all the blame for an indeterminate change that is happening entirely upon us.

Who benefits? Governments, it helps them to run their countries. Can you work out why?

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If it’s a con cui bono?

energy companies, especially petrol companies.

They all pay into green funds.

Environmental concern pushes up price of energy, read higher value for oil reserves, read higher valuations for oil companies' assets.

energy companies, especially petrol companies.

They all pay into green funds.

Environmental concern pushes up price of energy, read higher value for oil reserves, read higher valuations for oil companies' assets.

How does environmental concern push up oil prices? Energy companies pay a small amount of their turnover into so called green funds to promote green alternatives. But that amount has been cut by the present government as part of Dave’s "getting rid of all the green crap.” What they really fear is a carbon tax which would cut fossil fuel use and their profits.

The biggest subsidy by far though is for the nuclear industry which has managed to promote itself as green and which is of course big industry write large. Huge amounts of money in it for everyone and jobs for revolving door civil servants and ministers. The right likes to talk of subsidy for green alternatives paid for by utility consumers. But the biggest part of that is for nuclear power; and that’s before the huge clean up costs are factored in.

Something else to be kicked down the road for future generations to deal with. Assuming they have the technology, and aren’t illiterate goat herders.

How does environmental concern push up oil prices?.

Lesser competition helps to hold up oil price.

The real competition for oil is cheap coal. You would rather compete against nuclear/wind/solar/wave than cheap coal. So you pay to publicize that coal is killing the planet.

There is a factor that the global warming crowd rarely brings up. That is the ever changing dynamics and output from the sun. I follow several note worthy and reliable sites, including NASA, and they have all discussed the huge shift in sunspot and solar flare activity. In fact, just google "sunspot activity" and be prepared for a bit of a shock.

Here is a link to one of several articles on how the sun is getting cooler to the point that it may spark global cooling:

http://astronomynow.com/2015/07/17/diminishing-solar-activity-may-bring-new-ice-age-by-2030/

There is a lot of reputable discussion going on about how the diminishing activity sun may spark the start of a mini ice age, within the lifetime of our younger populist. This you never hear about when the politicians are banging their fist on the desks for more money to fight "global warming". Where this money actually winds up is another thread for discussion I am sure.

Just 10,000 years ago, Scotland and half of England were covered in an ice cap caused by an ice age. 10,000 years ago is a blip in the plane'ts time scale. Yet it happened and went away with no intervention from man. If we were facing major global cooling, what could be do? Reminds me of an ancient tale of a demented king whom declared war on the ocean's tide. He sent his soldiers into the oncoming tide, with their swords, hacking at the waves. Then he declared victory when the tide started to recede..........

If global warming is occurring and being accelerated by humans and we do nothing life will become difficult at best.

If it is not being made worse by humans and we increase our efficiency and reduce pollution at a moderate cost to our life style then what is the worst that will happen?

If global warming is occurring and being accelerated by humans and we do nothing life will become difficult at best.

If it is not being made worse by humans and we increase our efficiency and reduce pollution at a moderate cost to our life style then what is the worst that will happen?

Totally agree Geebee, whether you think human activity is responsible for climate change or not, polluting the planet is causing immeasurable damage so we all need to do something to mitigate that effect.