February 5, 20215 yr ..are they programmable? I recently noticed the USB programming cables for BAFANG motors (mid drive) and it got me wondering... Alot of the generic branded hub motors ive seen with integrated controllers have an identical green connector used on the bafang motors, as well as near identical options in their bundled LCD screens. surely these too would be programmable in the same way? Has anyone here tried it at all on any hub motors to see if they're programmable in any way?
February 5, 20215 yr Avoid any hub-motor with an integrated controller. I've never heard of a reliable one yet.
February 5, 20215 yr Seems like a fundamentally bad idea to have the controller in a hub. How is the controller supposed to stay cool? Also, you lose flexibility if you want a different controller, or your controller fails and you need to replace it.
February 5, 20215 yr I don't like the idea of putting the controller inside the motor but would like to see both pedal and speed sensors integrated inside the hub.
February 6, 20215 yr Author Seems like a fundamentally bad idea to have the controller in a hub. How is the controller supposed to stay cool? Also, you lose flexibility if you want a different controller, or your controller fails and you need to replace it. a good bulk that ive seen have integrated heatspreaders that are attached to the side of the hubs so heat dissipation seems adequate enough. No idea on their reliability, though, but seem to be increasingly more common. Not going to lie, but i prefer having no box/controller loosely bolted to the frame. a far cleaner look.
February 6, 20215 yr a good bulk that ive seen have integrated heatspreaders that are attached to the side of the hubs so heat dissipation seems adequate enough. No idea on their reliability, though, but seem to be increasingly more common. Not going to lie, but i prefer having no box/controller loosely bolted to the frame. a far cleaner look. Hmmm for how long? If you 3D print your own mounts you can make a clean looking yet flexible set set up.
February 6, 20215 yr a good bulk that ive seen have integrated heatspreaders that are attached to the side of the hubs so heat dissipation seems adequate enough. A good bulk? How many have you seen in? Can you give us some examples? The only ones I know are the Magic Pie, All in One, Bionx, Copenhagen Wheel, iMortor, Keyde, Flykly and a few others. None of them have special cooling fins and all are problematic apart from the Bionx. Edited February 6, 20215 yr by vfr400
February 6, 20215 yr I simply do not understand this demand for an ebike to look like an ordinary bike. What exactly is wrong with it obviously being an ebike. And apparently far more easily repaired when the inevitable something or other goes wrong.
February 6, 20215 yr I simply do not understand this demand for an ebike to look like an ordinary bike. What exactly is wrong with it obviously being an ebike. And apparently far more easily repaired when the inevitable something or other goes wrong. Vanity, mainly!
February 6, 20215 yr Probably in about 10 years time, there will be lots of ebikes about and the boot will be on the other foot. It will be that if your bike does not look like an ebike, it will be assumed that you are too poor to afford one!
February 6, 20215 yr Probably in about 10 years time, there will be lots of ebikes about and the boot will be on the other foot. It will be that if your bike does not look like an ebike, it will be assumed that you are too poor to afford one! Have you looked at the price of road bikes recently?
February 6, 20215 yr Author Ok, i can clearly see this community has an elitist attitude in some capacity which is pretty pathetic. Probably from some sour experience in the past with hub motors i'm presuming? Thats fine, but it'll hold you back in the long run. This industry is changing, whether you like it or not. Not all integrated hub controllers are "bad". Enjoy being left behind as the rest of the world experiments and adopts ebikes and the new market emerging. Vanity, mainly! No, because it's a bicycle first and foremost, from a legal perspective thats significant (In some countries, moreso then others). It's asthetically cleaner, therefore less wires, there's less weight, because of - surprise - less cabling (Significant too, because it's a BICYCLE) It's safer, because the wires all share the same cabling so less likely to snag or catch on clothing, branches or other objects...isn't this all obvious? There's significantly more pro's than cons - unless, as many keep reiterating, reliability is the issue. Of which i'd expect that to improve as time progresses. If you're seeking your ebike to be a "Ebike" with a specific asthetic (Wires everywhere??) expect legislation made specifically for that and tax, insurance and a annual vehicle test to be made. Enjoy your new normal. Also, some of us dont like wires and boxes attached to a frame being left open to the elements and vulernable to damage. I dont want my clothes to snag on wires and risk being electrocuted. It's a bicycle first, on a minimal steel/aluminium frame that can easily get damaged, bend, buckle. It's not a motorcycle no matter how much cabling and wires you throw on it. This is the second time i've made a post here regarding integrated controllers on hub motors for the thread to descend into rants about how bad they are with no real evidence to support othewise. Some of you guys really need to get out of this bubble you're in. It's unfortunate that rather then get any constructive discorse and infomation there's this silly elitist behavior that is so prevalent in the cycling industry. Probably in about 10 years time, there will be lots of ebikes about and the boot will be on the other foot. It will be that if your bike does not look like an ebike, it will be assumed that you are too poor to afford one! And yet it's vain to want no cabling on a bicycle frame? what a ridiculous attiude you all have. Enjoy being taxed to shit for wanting to look "non poor" and on a specific "ebike". Absolutely idiotic. Edited February 6, 20215 yr by Thingamajig
February 6, 20215 yr Ok, i can clearly see this community has an elitist attitude in some capacity which is pretty pathetic. Probably from some sour experience in the past with hub motors i'm presuming? I asked you for examples that you think are OK so that we can try them out. Where's the elitism? Your're right about sour experience though. When anybody puts their money down in the hope of having a long and pleasant ebiking experience and the thing packs up after a few weeks, it leaves a very sour taste.
February 6, 20215 yr Author Your're right about sour experience though. all i need to know. Thanks, bye.
February 6, 20215 yr all i need to know. Thanks, bye. I guess you don't know of any examples then. Sorry to spoil your dreams, but better that than make you waste your money.
February 6, 20215 yr Mike I think it's the brigade who say they won't ever be caught on an ebike (roadies)as it is cheating, but they don't mind so much if it doesn't shout ebike. Much in the same line as those who think TS drive is like riding a push bike when it is totally the opposite and has some 300% more power input, all by electronics.
February 6, 20215 yr I simply do not understand this demand for an ebike to look like an ordinary bike. What exactly is wrong with it obviously being an ebike. And apparently far more easily repaired when the inevitable something or other goes wrong. Some eBikes look electric some do not. Just like some guitars. An amplified instrument that does not feel or look overt has an aesthetic appeal to some riders. Service is a bit more involved but not by much. https://pedaluma.com/. Obviously I repair bikes, I am a bike mechanic and this is a hands-on service that cannot be shipped or sold over the internet, just like dog walking or babysitting. I think it is subversive fun to take a British 1940's style steel 3-speed with a coaster brake that does not look electric and have it outperform one of these monsters on a hill: https://www.stromerbike.com/en/models/st3
February 6, 20215 yr Mike I think it's the brigade who say they won't ever be caught on an ebike (roadies)as it is cheating, but they don't mind so much if it doesn't shout ebike. Much in the same line as those who think TS drive is like riding a push bike when it is totally the opposite and has some 300% more power input, all by electronics. Frankly, I find the lines of both my full size ebike and my folding ebike to be aesthetically very pleasing, wires, boxes and all. After all, as a teenager I rode about on a cyclemaster attachment. What with the noise, smoke and vibration, together with number plates, there was no hope of trying to be an ordinary bike. If thingamajig is upset because many of us have valid doubts as to whether integrating the controller inside a hub motor is a good idea, all I can say is 'tough' But we have seen too many bright ideas come and go. Remember that chap who wanted to motors in the pedals? To claim that the latest idea is always the way forward is a bit premature. .
February 6, 20215 yr Frankly, I find the lines of both my full size ebike and my folding ebike to be aesthetically very pleasing, wires, boxes and all. After all, as a teenager I rode about on a cyclemaster attachment. What with the noise, smoke and vibration, together with number plates, there was no hope of trying to be an ordinary bike. If thingamajig is upset because many of us have valid doubts as to whether integrating the controller inside a hub motor is a good idea, all I can say is 'tough' But we have seen too many bright ideas come and go. Remember that chap who wanted to motors in the pedals? To claim that the latest idea is always the way forward is a bit premature. . I must admit that I find the Spin Cycle very aesthetically pleasing, and I'd be proud to ride it. I think I'd change the brakes first, though! It's a development of the cramk-drive bike that i built before kits were available:
February 6, 20215 yr Ok, i can clearly see this community has an elitist attitude in some capacity which is pretty pathetic. Probably from some sour experience in the past with hub motors i'm presuming? Thats fine, but it'll hold you back in the long run. This industry is changing, whether you like it or not. Not all integrated hub controllers are "bad". Enjoy being left behind as the rest of the world experiments and adopts ebikes and the new market emerging. As a layman the problem I have with combining parts into a single housing is the that most people will have to replace perfectly serviceable (and working) components due to the failure of a single part. Most don't have the knowledge and are at the mercy of retailers. I remember the Amstrad HiFi tower systems of the 70's, Looked great. Nice clean installation and appearance but they were nothing more than a "Radiogram" in new clothes. For most owners if a part broke the whole lot was scrap. I went down the separate component route so I could repair/upgrade as needed and even today my Garrard SP25, Toshiba ST-U20L, Toshiba SU-V5, Aiwa AD-WX717 and Phillips CD624 Gives a great sound (Although probably no longer easy to replace). I'm sure Integrated components in hub motors are the way to go but we aren't there yet IMHO and for me being able to replace the motor, controller or battery individually far outweighs the sleek lines of "No Wires, Controller boxes" etc. But each to his own, it's not a case of being "held back in the long run". It's being comfortable with what you ride, in the case of integrated controllers in hub motors to me it's just more unsprung weight and as it's physically part of the wheel not an ideal place for a controller. Integrated into Mid Drive systems though is a different kettle of fish But just my 2p's worth TTFN John.
February 6, 20215 yr So what is all this fuss about wires? Exactly how many wires do you cut down on by having the controller in the hub? You still need wires into the controller, for brakes, LCD screen, throttle, headlamp power, any anti theft system, Battery wires, PAS... If all those wires have to feed all the way to the hub, it would not exactly be aesthetically pleasing, and also a pain in the neck to have to disconnect them all if you have to take the wheel off.
February 7, 20215 yr I must admit that I find the Spin Cycle very aesthetically pleasing, and I'd be proud to ride it. I think I'd change the brakes first, though! It's a development of the cramk-drive bike that i built before kits were available: [ATTACH type=full" alt="40656]40656[/ATTACH] I really like the looks of those bikes. I have come to the conclusion that some people such as myself like to see mechanical complications. That is why The Dorset Steam Fair is so successful. Smooth modern lines might have their appeal, but a lot of people enjoy looking at all sorts of mechanical things, old fashioned printing presses, ships' engines, beam pumps etc. The reason I suspect is that many of us like to understand how things work and appreciate being able to follow the various parts. Others are quite happy to not have a clue as to how things work and like smooth flowing lines.
February 7, 20215 yr "Too many eggs in one basket", as the saying goes. Integration undoubtedly has its style appeal, very important to some, though it is a "driver" of our present throwaway society. The latter, something in the future that might also be seen as a whim that the planet ought to be spared?
February 7, 20215 yr I hadn't heard anything about the super high-tech Copenhagen wheel that was supposedly developed by MIT, so I just had a look around and found this. The guy is a bit verbose, so you can skip to the two letters at the bottom to see the nitty gritty of ownership. They've stopped selling now and claim they still offer support, but these guys didn't get much help when the product was at its peak, so pretty sad for anybody that stumped up cash. https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/08/the-copenhagen-wheel-an-honest-follow-up/
February 7, 20215 yr "Too many eggs in one basket", as the saying goes. Integration undoubtedly has its style appeal, very important to some, though it is a "driver" of our present throwaway society. The latter, something in the future that might also be seen as a whim that the planet ought to be spared? I hadn't heard anything about the super high-tech Copenhagen wheel that was supposedly developed by MIT, so I just had a look around and found this. The guy is a bit verbose, so you can skip to the two letters at the bottom to see the nitty gritty of ownership. They've stopped selling now and claim they still offer support, but these guys didn't get much help when the product was at its peak, so pretty sad for anybody that stumped up cash. https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/08/the-copenhagen-wheel-an-honest-follow-up/ Simply it was too complicated. You could see that at the start. Needing to have a smart phone to control it instead of the manufacturers supplying a dedicated device told me that they were cutting corners. To put all the electronics in one place was courting disaster, especially as they never managed to waterproof it. That final response in the link you give is not addressing the problem, merely a cut and paste advert, the hated phrase 'Thank you for reaching out to us' repels me, why not use plain English? All it tells you is that you are dealing with a bunch of tosspots to whom fashion, faddishness and style over substance is important.
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