Insurance

[Orraman]

I was delighted to read about the ways that people enjoyed Presteigne but am concerned about the attitude shown to insurance and risks.
Perhaps someone with knowledge of the subject could offer information on what is covered by existing cycle Personal Liability insurance policies and particularly what is not.

I am informed that it is not possible to insure for an illegal act.

In my experience insurance companies will only provide what they are legally obliged to, as the restrictions are legal requirements where does that leave a derestricted bike?

Dave

 

[alanterrill]

This is interesting: "it is impossible to insure for an illegal act" sounds like a basic supposition of insurance, but does it apply to motor vehicles - for example the maximum speed you can go anywhere in this country in 70mph. So if you're involved in a motorway crash at 80mph does your insurance refuse to pay out? It seems unlikely somehow!

 

[flecc]

It's conceivable with motor insurance that they could refuse to pay the comprehensive element due to the policyholder breaching the policy conditions regarding legal use, just meeting the third party requirements.
.

 

[baboon]

This is interesting: "it is impossible to insure for an illegal act" sounds like a basic supposition of insurance, but does it apply to motor vehicles - for example the maximum speed you can go anywhere in this country in 70mph. So if you're involved in a motorway crash at 80mph does your insurance refuse to pay out? It seems unlikely somehow!

Check your policy conditions, you may be surprised.

Would you expect them to pay out if you'd been doing 150mph --- in a 30mph zone?

Peter

 

[Orraman]

Gentlemen, thank you for the interesting points that you raise but as you both refer to motor vehicle situations where insurance is mandatory I doubt that there is a true comparison.
Cars rule: there is even an agreement between the Government and the Motor Insurers Bureau where claims will be met for uninsured drivers of motor vehicles.

As an example of insurance logic nearer bicycle level :=
On pavements a class 3 invalid carriage insurance will be invalid if the speed switch is at 'high' irrespective of how slow it travels. This session was where the "it is impossible......." came from.
On every proposal form is the catch-all "Failure to disclose any fact......void".

It is gratifying that you both considered the question worth responding to for it is a genuine question and I still hope for "pukha gen" from some informed person.

Peter, it would appear that you have read the unabridged version of your policy statement.

Dave

 

[flecc]

Gentlemen, thank you for the interesting points that you raise but as you both refer to motor vehicle situations where insurance is mandatory I doubt that there is a true comparison.
from some informed person.

Dave

In fact it is a true comparison Dave. A derestricted e-bike is a motor vehicle in law, falling into the low powered moped class as ruled by the DoT.

Anyone riding a derestricted e-bike is riding a motor vehicle which is unregistered, without road fund tax and number plates, rider almost certainly uninsured, and possibly unlicenced. Add on the fact that their bike doesn't have type approval and they could be in very deep trouble in the event of an accident.
.

 

[Orraman]

flecc,
While I thank you for a succinct summation and although ignorance is no defence, I now rather wish that I remained silent.
Being concerned at the attitude shown that divorced a cyclist from responsibility because they are insured, I had wished to sound a cautionary note.
Conditions often include an Excess of £500, exclude Punitive damages and competition, and have a requirement to comply with Statuary obligations.
I do not speak against insurance, I consider what could be lost (my home?) to any 'chancer' who steps in front of my bike.

 

[Nick]

Hi Dave

The information you were given that you cannot insure for an illegal act is correct. However, things are not always black and white, and the Financial Services Authority (FSA, regulator of the UK insurance industry) and the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS, arbitrator) have been known to remind insurance companies of one of the principles of insurace, that of causa proxima, which dictates the cause of the 'loss' must be proximate and not distant. To take a derestricted electric bike as an example, I suspect it would be for the courts to decide (as I do not know of any precedents, although they may well exist) whether the deristriction had any bearing on the loss; if not (as with theft, for example), any claim may well be settled. As an aside here, the FOS does not necessarily settle disputes according to the letter of the law, and its decisions do not affect statutory rights, etc.

It does surprise me when people openly air their illegal acts, particularly in durable medium such as text or videos.

I have little to do with personal liability insurace so cannot offer anything much beyond the layman, and am in the process of getting out of the insurance world altogether. It is not a job to boast about at dinner parties!

 

[Terrytraveller]

Insurance for E-Bikes

I bought a Powacycle Lynx 10 days ago and have been looking for insurance since then. The house is insured with RAIS and they have refused ebike insurance at any price, although they will insure a normal bike, providing it dosen't cost too much to replace if stolen.

Other's I have looked at so far on line, have terms and conditions which are almost impossible to adhere to all the time, and the time you will have taken sensible secure procedures, and had the ebike nicked, they will hit you with one of the terms and conditions which would have been impossible to comply with totally.

For example - 1. the ebike must be secured with only a Sold Secure link Leisure security system, no other will be countenanced . 2. You have to secure the ebike to solid street furniture, in the country will a tree be safe enough it doesn't say what size tree or type - English Oak perhaps . So that means you are not insured for theft if the bike is stolen and you had left it locked on your bike carrier, on car or motorhome, I suppose you could chain the car/motorhome to some solid street furniture

It might be a good time for forum members to read the small print, and if you are covered for normal everyday ebiking activities, which includes getting off it occasionally and using your legs to wander around - and you are still covered for its theft, Please let me and others know.

Regards Terry

 

[Nick]

Hi Terry

Hiscox are acknowledged within the UK industry as looking for ways to settle claims rather than decline them, and they take a far more pragmatic view of claims, looking more to the spirit of a policy than its wording. For example, whilst most house insurance policies insist all exit doors and windows are locked when you retire for the night or go out, Hiscox accept that that is not reasonable - which is not to say they will pay out if you go away for a month and leave the door wide open.

Their household policy, from memory, covers 'any one bicycle' up to £1000 which I interpret as including electric bikes. I do not think they demand any particular security measures beyond taking reasonable care of your property.

And no, I don't work for Hiscox!

 

[Terrytraveller]

Ebike Insurance Terms & Conditions

Hi Nick,

Many thanks for your reply, I will have a look at Hiscox, unfortunately I've just renewed my house policy with RIAS, so will be looking at independant insurance,especially for Europe whilst touring with bikes on a Fiamma Carry Bike pro, which I am in the process of fitting to the motorhome.

I think the insurance I have looked at, must have a sold secure bike lock fitted when left unattended, is sponsored by this site, when I looked at it I thought it was just right, choice of public liabilty from 1 million to 5 million. It was only when I delved into the Terms and Condtions I saw just how impossible it was to comply.

Have a look at your terms and conditions Nick, I would advise not to assume, just in case.

Regards Terry

 

[Chris_Bike]

Hi Terry,

This won't help you as you have just re-newed household insurance (and you need to be over 50)....... But Saga have recently paid out for me on a very expensive race bike (not electric) stolen from a locked garden shed (the bike was not locked). There was no question once they established that the loss involved forced entry. They paid the replacement cost.

Chris

 

[rooel]

I have said it before, but I will say it again: anyone looking for electric bike insurance as part of their household policy should try Bank of Scotland eSure: no special locks specified (they probably know they are not much better than "ordinary" locks), the main locking requirement being that the frame should be secured to a fixed object such as a fence or lamp post; and public liability covered too, not only for negligence on the bike, but for every activity outside the house other than driving a motor vehicle.

 

[Terrytraveller]

Ebike insurance

Hi Chris and Rooal and thanks for your input, will take on board your suggestions and see if I can come up with a reasonable insurance package. I thoroughly agree about public liabilty insurance, I feel abit exposed out riding the ebike without it - in 55 years of motoring, I have always been road legal with the paperwork.

I do agree with Rooal about the security of the locks, I suppose the D bar is better, although I have bought the thick plastic coated wire with integral lock, I suppose bolt cutters would be effective against both types of lock, I notice the local cheapjacks have them on sale for a couple of quid, it's handy if you've lost your keys, and really handy for the grazing tealeaf

Isn't it a real S.O.D. you can't leave anything that is loose around, the middle eastern law had the best idea of removing fingers or hands of any thief, and the heads of murderers and rapists.

Chris - It's nice to know that Saga paid up for your stolen bike, I think I read in the terms and conditions of one insurance company, that even at home in the garage, they wanted the bike to be secured to a post cemented (secured anyway) into the ground.

Regards Terry

 

[Chris_Bike]

You're absolutely right Terry, most insurance companies insist on them being locked down even when inside (if they cover them at all). Also, most companies have a top limit to cover (often £500 - £1000). I called Saga expecting to be told that I wasn't covered, but they couldn't have been more helpful. They paid the full replacement value of the bike (which was over £3K).
Chris

 

[john]

I do agree with Rooal about the security of the locks, I suppose the D bar is better, although I have bought the thick plastic coated wire with integral lock, I suppose bolt cutters would be effective against both types of lock, I notice the local cheapjacks have them on sale for a couple of quid, it's handy if you've lost your keys, and really handy for the grazing tealeaf

Bolt cutters will go through cables but not most D locks as these are usually hardened. Thieves use car jacks for those but the better ones are able to resist this and require power tools to get through them.

 

[JohnInStockie]

I use one of these New York Fahgettaboudit®

I personally have read tons of reviews on the web and these came up trumps in the vast majority of user reviews and group tests.

Note that they look very similar to a Kryptonite chain that was notoriously easy to break back in 2005/6 that was on tv (think they could unlock those with a bic pen!!). Kryptonite suffered seriously bad press for that (as they should)

They have remedied all of those problems I understand from what I have read in the press and in magazine reviews.

However, these are heavy and expensive, so what I tend to do is ensure that I know where I am going and where the bike will be if I am going to lug that around, all other times it stays at work.

The way I see it though is that I would spend £25 on a lock to secure a £200 bike, and my bike cost £1,000.

John

 

[Lloyd_50cycles]

I personally use Cycleguard for theft insurance, unfortunately had one claim and they were excellent to deal with. very fast. For third party and public liability you can get full cover with british cycling if you get Silver or Gold membership, plus a wholeheap of other benefits.

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I hope that helps