Inside the Lafree Twist power unit
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Nigel
thats great
flecc its good to know the twist has a decent motor thanx for time and effort keep up the good work. As you said a few weeks back to give the bike a fair trial and yes you were right the bike has grown on me its so easy to ride without power on the riding position is perfect and if
you get weary then all you have to do is flick the switch and enjoy the ride its a winner through and through what a shame they dont make this model any more. nigel .southampton.
thats great
flecc its good to know the twist has a decent motor thanx for time and effort keep up the good work. As you said a few weeks back to give the bike a fair trial and yes you were right the bike has grown on me its so easy to ride without power on the riding position is perfect and if
you get weary then all you have to do is flick the switch and enjoy the ride its a winner through and through what a shame they dont make this model any more. nigel .southampton.Curiosity partially quenched
Many thanks for that flecc. The crafty devils putting a smaller motor under the largeish black cover, I thought that was all motor Does it have a part no on the unit/motor? I've heard and read that there are at least 2 power plant revisions so I'm wondering which you have. I was going to change my hub sprocket this weekend and do some test riding (having put it off from earlier in the week), but alas not enough sun hours to do everything I wanted. It'll have to wait another week. Any identifying marks or pointers/clues as to how it's configured or would that all be within the strain gauge section? Could we see some photos of it all on your site please
Many thanks for that flecc. The crafty devils putting a smaller motor under the largeish black cover, I thought that was all motor
Does it have a part no on the unit/motor? I've heard and read that there are at least 2 power plant revisions so I'm wondering which you have. I was going to change my hub sprocket this weekend and do some test riding (having put it off from earlier in the week), but alas not enough sun hours to do everything I wanted. It'll have to wait another week. Any identifying marks or pointers/clues as to how it's configured or would that all be within the strain gauge section? Could we see some photos of it all on your site please I agree entirely and worst of all there isn't even a better replacement for the same sort of role as the new Twist only has a hub motor.
I'll see what I can do. I didn't remove the motor housing completely as the way in which it's assembled prevents full withdrawal without everything on the other side being stripped to release the cables, hence no photo there. I could only peer through a gap. The other side isn't easy to realign either, but I'll have another go at getting better access for pics without pulling it totally to pieces.`Any identifying marks or pointers/clues as to how it's configured or would that all be within the strain gauge section? Could we see some photos of it all on your site please
Just below and forward of the motor sprocket there's the Panasonic name stamped on the outside of the alloy casing and below there's these numbers:
EBS005026A
31303011580A
plus Made in Japan below.
The plastic motor housing has number 3326 paint stamped on it, and there's various inked quality control/assemblers marks.
.
Photographs
As requested, I've added a set of photographs which should satisfy curiosity about the contents of this unit. At the same time, I've created a new Technical page on my Twist website in which it sits. Also on that page is a chart of gear inches and speeds for different sprocket sizes on both the Nexus 3 speed and SRAM 5 speed hubs. Here's the link to the Technical page:
technical
.
As requested, I've added a set of photographs which should satisfy curiosity about the contents of this unit. At the same time, I've created a new Technical page on my Twist website in which it sits. Also on that page is a chart of gear inches and speeds for different sprocket sizes on both the Nexus 3 speed and SRAM 5 speed hubs. Here's the link to the Technical page:
technical
.
Thank you for the photos flecc. It's a pity there wasn't a little folded up sheet in the electronics compartment with firmware configuration/remapping information. As for the text, Sumo wrestlers on a Giant Twist... - well what could be more appropriate, the name says it all. Will try to add to your gear inch stats for the 16 tooth sprocket with a P5 and standard Twist tyres once I get some time to change the sprocket and test it later this week.
Will try to add to your gear inch stats for the 16 tooth sprocket with a P5 and standard Twist tyres once I get some time to change the sprocket and test it later this week.
Flecc,
Whats its like getting parts? Do you think it would be possible to get a replacement motor? Its a brushed motor right?
Whats its like getting parts? Do you think it would be possible to get a replacement motor? Its a brushed motor right?
No, it's a Hall effect motor with three phase windings, so is brushless. The three black Hall sensors shown in the second picture perform the function of brushes in these as they sense the passing magnetic conditions of the poles. There's not likely to be a difficulty yet with parts, but Giant's prices are high, sometimes very high since these models were discontinued. I've never heard of one of these motors failing and they are low powered and protected from stress by the control system which also has a high temperature cut out. Looking at the way these are built, I can't see anything wearing out or breaking in years.
The complexity of control necessary for this odd Hall sensor configuration means any other use of this motor is impractical. My guess is that the Hall sensors are switched and two at least operate through delay lines. I know of no other controller even vaguely like this. This whole design is very individual in this way, having absolutely nothing in common with e-bikes from anywhere else.
The current Swiss Flyer models use this same Panasonic unit and Panasonic market their own town bikes in Japan with it, so spares should be available from other parts of the world even if Giant did stop supply completely.
.
The complexity of control necessary for this odd Hall sensor configuration means any other use of this motor is impractical. My guess is that the Hall sensors are switched and two at least operate through delay lines. I know of no other controller even vaguely like this. This whole design is very individual in this way, having absolutely nothing in common with e-bikes from anywhere else.
The current Swiss Flyer models use this same Panasonic unit and Panasonic market their own town bikes in Japan with it, so spares should be available from other parts of the world even if Giant did stop supply completely.
.
Last edited:
Thats good to know.
I had my eye on a cheapish looking lafree on ebay (eBay.co.uk: Excellent Electric Bicycle - Bike Twist Comfort (item 330082809671 end time 06-Feb-07 12:22:19 GMT)) and was thinking of rebuilding it and making it more powerful. Perhaps not such a good base bike for the this kind of project.
I had my eye on a cheapish looking lafree on ebay (eBay.co.uk: Excellent Electric Bicycle - Bike Twist Comfort (item 330082809671 end time 06-Feb-07 12:22:19 GMT)) and was thinking of rebuilding it and making it more powerful. Perhaps not such a good base bike for the this kind of project.
No, definitely not, I couldn't think of a worse bike for such a project, and it's not just the complexity that's the trouble.
The main thing to bear in mind with drive through the gear systems is the load on the transmission, which is both rider and motor. Cycle transmissions are barely up to the Lafree's 390 watts plus rider, for example the Nexus 4 speed hubs fell to pieces under the strain, so making it even more powerful would lead to trouble with most chains, hubs and derailleurs. Only the SRAM P5 Cargo version hub might cope with a bit more, but not much more.
The main thing to bear in mind with drive through the gear systems is the load on the transmission, which is both rider and motor. Cycle transmissions are barely up to the Lafree's 390 watts plus rider, for example the Nexus 4 speed hubs fell to pieces under the strain, so making it even more powerful would lead to trouble with most chains, hubs and derailleurs. Only the SRAM P5 Cargo version hub might cope with a bit more, but not much more.
Another point regarding that ebay bike, this line appears there:
"The charger and battery were thrown away by accident when clearing the garage out, so i was told".
It could be a stolen bike, since that wouldn't have a charger and the battery could have been out as an anti-theft measure.
"The charger and battery were thrown away by accident when clearing the garage out, so i was told".
It could be a stolen bike, since that wouldn't have a charger and the battery could have been out as an anti-theft measure.
My thoughts too. It looks to be one of the older models, possibly with only the 4 speed Nexus hub and not the much better SRAM P5.
Related Articles
-
MTF Enterprises announces acquisition of EMU Electric Bikes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Wisper 806T folding bike wins Which? ‘Best Buy’- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Sustrans calls for protected cycle lanes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Amazon launch their first UK e-cargo micromobility hub- Started by: Pedelecs
