The Suntour motor in the Carrera Crossfire as has been mentioned many times before, The Brose motor as someone else mentioned is percentage wise worse
Help! Info on web site www.e-bike buyer.com (seller of second hand e-bikes
- Thread starter Iainchef
- Start date
I think you have misinterpreted this (and it looks as if the article you quote has made the same mistake). You say '22% of Bosch e-bike owners have had problems with their e-bikes'. It's worse and better than you suggest.In the UK, in the period after the end of WW2, a common every day term for poor quality or rubbish was "Bosch" or "bit of Old Bosch"........
I cannot say exactly when the term fell out of usage, but guessing only, sometime in the 1960's.
With regard to e-bike quality from that German company, it is still true!
Of course Bosch e-bike owners don't like to hear anyone calling their expensive bikes "Ugly", as the truth hurts.
There is hardly a month that goes by on Pedelec, without some poor inexperienced owner who has experienced problems writing here.......
When one considers that the lower priced end of the e-bike market is where the larger numbers of e-bikes sold are, and we do of course see problems there, but the numbers of incidents reported here on Pedelec are tiny in comparison to the high end priced bikes.
Bosch itself causes many of the problems by refusing to supply spares and full product repair information to private persons and LBS's that are not affiliated to Bosch! That is where many feel that Bosch are not following EU laws on the sale of goods.
Furthermore, if your motor dies, Bosch apparently replaces that motor for around 800 UK Pounds plus fitting, with a repaired (not new!) motor!
And according to some one here last year, it has been known that these motors have then failed within days of being fitted!
If that is the type of quality that Bosch e-bike owners expect and apparently accept, then I can only say that personally I find that appalling!
If anyone wishes to investigate ANY make of e-bike, then web sites like Pedelec can be searched quite easily for individual cases, if required......
For example I used " bosch problems" as a search argument and got a list of 173 pages of Bosch problems of one sort or another!!!
Remember, this is just Pedelec!
If we assume that say only 50% of that are true Bosch e-bike problems, that is still a huge number......even 25% is still huge!
Does anyone know any other Manufacturer's name of e-bike problems, anywhere close to that? I did not till I investigate the German e-bike scene...
So I tend to feel that the returning British soldiers from Germany, after the end of WW2 had something.
For anyone who can read German, or who is willing to use and interpreter software/web site, the problems for Bosch e-bike owners are apparently pretty huge and well documented in Germany:-
Or here:-
or here:-
Rückrufe von Fahrrädern und E-Bikes: Bei diesen Zweirädern radelt das Risiko mit
Nicht selten rufen Fahrradanbieter Modelle oder Einzelteile wegen Sicherheitsrisiken zurück – die Stiftung Warentest berichtet darüber und fasst die...www.test.de
or here:-
Studie belegt: Dieser Akku macht E-Bikern am meisten Probleme
E-Bike-Reparatur-Studie 2020 - wo liegen die technischen Probleme? Übersicht über die größten Schwachstellen bei E-Bikes. ➔ Hier informieren.efahrer.chip.de
Where an interesting Graphic can be seen that requires little knowledge of German:-
Auswertung Umfrage: War Ihr Motor schon defekt?
Antriebsschäden am E-MTB sind ärgerlich – aber leider keine Seltenheit. Daher startete EMTB die Umfrage "Motorschäden am E-MTB", über 1900 E-MTB Fans nahmen teil. Jetzt sind die Antworten ausgewertet.www.bike-magazin.de
View attachment 40048
43% Only have had NO PROBLEMS with their e-bike. A total of 904 e-Bikes, of mixed manufacturers.
22% of Bosch e-bike owners have had problems with their e-bikes a total of 454 bikes.
Brose had 21% of problems with 449 e-bikes.
Shimano had 5% with 111 bikes.
All the other manufacturers (therefore by definition the cheapos including of course hub bikes) accounted for only 9% of the problems, with 184 e-bikes! - very telling indeed as this will be the lower end of the market price wise.
I hope that this will interest anyone considering a Bosch bike at this time,
Happy New Year.
Andy
My reading of the chart and article is that 22% of responders had Bosch ebikes and had problems with them.
If the sample was a proportionately representative of German owned ebikes and that proportion is 50% Bosch (***) (you are in a better position than I am to know that) then of the sample of 2102 bikes 1051 were Bosch, of which 454 had problems (43%). The same number 1051 were non-Bosch, of which 744 had problems (71%). So that suggests that Bosch owners are likely to have had the fewest problems.
It is a shame that 57% had problems (we don't know how serious these problems were), but reassuring for Bosch owners that they are considerably less likely to have them than other owners. (Welcome reassurance when you take into account the likely excessive costs when the do have them out of guarantee.)
(***) it would have been helpful if the chart had broken down the 'no problem' section. From things you and others have said I suspect the 50% Bosch figure might be too low., in which case the chart indicates higher then 57% Bosch reliability, and higher than 71% other brands unreliability.
D
Deleted member 33385
Guest
Bosch is too rich for my blood! Plus if any of this is true, I wouldn't buy Bosch ebike systems anyway... but they make good plug-in jigsaws and drills:In the UK, in the period after the end of WW2, a common every day term for poor quality or rubbish was "Bosch" or "bit of Old Bosch"........
I cannot say exactly when the term fell out of usage, but guessing only, sometime in the 1960's.
With regard to e-bike quality from that German company, it is still true!
Of course Bosch e-bike owners don't like to hear anyone calling their expensive bikes "Ugly", as the truth hurts.
There is hardly a month that goes by on Pedelec, without some poor inexperienced owner who has experienced problems writing here.......
When one considers that the lower priced end of the e-bike market is where the larger numbers of e-bikes sold are, and we do of course see problems there, but the numbers of incidents reported here on Pedelec are tiny in comparison to the high end priced bikes.
Bosch itself causes many of the problems by refusing to supply spares and full product repair information to private persons and LBS's that are not affiliated to Bosch! That is where many feel that Bosch are not following EU laws on the sale of goods.
Furthermore, if your motor dies, Bosch apparently replaces that motor for around 800 UK Pounds plus fitting, with a repaired (not new!) motor!
And according to some one here last year, it has been known that these motors have then failed within days of being fitted!
If that is the type of quality that Bosch e-bike owners expect and apparently accept, then I can only say that personally I find that appalling!
If anyone wishes to investigate ANY make of e-bike, then web sites like Pedelec can be searched quite easily for individual cases, if required......
For example I used " bosch problems" as a search argument and got a list of 173 pages of Bosch problems of one sort or another!!!
Remember, this is just Pedelec!
If we assume that say only 50% of that are true Bosch e-bike problems, that is still a huge number......even 25% is still huge!
Does anyone know any other Manufacturer's name of e-bike problems, anywhere close to that? I did not till I investigate the German e-bike scene...
So I tend to feel that the returning British soldiers from Germany, after the end of WW2 had something.
For anyone who can read German, or who is willing to use and interpreter software/web site, the problems for Bosch e-bike owners are apparently pretty huge and well documented in Germany:-
Or here:-
or here:-Rückrufe von Fahrrädern und E-Bikes: Bei diesen Zweirädern radelt das Risiko mit
Nicht selten rufen Fahrradanbieter Modelle oder Einzelteile wegen Sicherheitsrisiken zurück – die Stiftung Warentest berichtet darüber und fasst die...
or here:-Studie belegt: Dieser Akku macht E-Bikern am meisten Probleme
E-Bike-Reparatur-Studie 2020 - wo liegen die technischen Probleme? Übersicht über die größten Schwachstellen bei E-Bikes. ➔ Hier informieren.
Where an interesting Graphic can be seen that requires little knowledge of German:-Auswertung Umfrage: War Ihr Motor schon defekt?
Antriebsschäden am E-MTB sind ärgerlich – aber leider keine Seltenheit. Daher startete EMTB die Umfrage "Motorschäden am E-MTB", über 1900 E-MTB Fans nahmen teil. Jetzt sind die Antworten ausgewertet.
View attachment 40048
43% Only have had NO PROBLEMS with their e-bike. A total of 904 e-Bikes, of mixed manufacturers.
22% of Bosch e-bike owners have had problems with their e-bikes a total of 454 bikes.
Brose had 21% of problems with 449 e-bikes.
Shimano had 5% with 111 bikes.
All the other manufacturers (therefore by definition the cheapos including of course hub bikes) accounted for only 9% of the problems, with 184 e-bikes! - very telling indeed as this will be the lower end of the market price wise.
I hope that this will interest anyone considering a Bosch bike at this time,
Happy New Year.
Andy
https://electricbike-blog.com/direct-drive-geared-hub-or-mid-drive/
Last edited:
I see you noted the different spellings, but can you yourself pronounce either word in such a way, that anyone listening can actually 100% of the time, tell the difference?
I am pretty sure that I cannot! It would just be 50:50 for most of us....
Remember, many Brits (and Americans) often have pronunciation problems anyway with German words and names, for instance few of them can pronounce "Porsche" correctly. Not even on the BBC!
Car aficionados do say it better generally speaking.
But Bosch is not one of them!
And there are many other examples.
Who really knows about the origins of Bosh in the UK, but I myself find it MOST fitting!
I support my adopted country in most things, but not this particular company, as they are doing nasty things to many owners in at least Germany, Austria, Switzerland and the UK, that I know of.....
Probably in other countries too if the truth be known......
When asked, Bosch has stated that Batteries should last 10 years or 1,500 recharges, before capacity starts to drop:-
How to extend the life of your eBike Battery - Revolution Blog
New batteries are no longer that complicated. If you are looking for tips on how to extend the life of your eBike Battery look no further.
www.cycle-revolution.net
I myself know a few riders who bought Bosch bikes here, but all less than 10 years ago, and all are riding on 2nd or in one case, a 3rd battery. But the few I have spoken with feel that is completely normal and acceptable.....
The way they were tested is completely different to what you said, as the number of responents, giving the percentage is of the ones that responded, and who had problems.
So it does not really matter HOW MANY responded for each make. Which is how such things need to be compared for good accuracy, for different brands.
Anything else is cloud cuckoo land.....and then you cannot compare accurately between makes....
If you want to read German, open the page and right click on it, you will see a Google option to translate the page.In the UK, in the period after the end of WW2, a common every day term for poor quality or rubbish was "Bosch" or "bit of Old Bosch"........
I cannot say exactly when the term fell out of usage, but guessing only, sometime in the 1960's.
With regard to e-bike quality from that German company, it is still true!
Of course Bosch e-bike owners don't like to hear anyone calling their expensive bikes "Ugly", as the truth hurts.
There is hardly a month that goes by on Pedelec, without some poor inexperienced owner who has experienced problems writing here.......
When one considers that the lower priced end of the e-bike market is where the larger numbers of e-bikes sold are, and we do of course see problems there, but the numbers of incidents reported here on Pedelec are tiny in comparison to the high end priced bikes.
Bosch itself causes many of the problems by refusing to supply spares and full product repair information to private persons and LBS's that are not affiliated to Bosch! That is where many feel that Bosch are not following EU laws on the sale of goods.
Furthermore, if your motor dies, Bosch apparently replaces that motor for around 800 UK Pounds plus fitting, with a repaired (not new!) motor!
And according to some one here last year, it has been known that these motors have then failed within days of being fitted!
If that is the type of quality that Bosch e-bike owners expect and apparently accept, then I can only say that personally I find that appalling!
If anyone wishes to investigate ANY make of e-bike, then web sites like Pedelec can be searched quite easily for individual cases, if required......
For example I used " bosch problems" as a search argument and got a list of 173 pages of Bosch problems of one sort or another!!!
Remember, this is just Pedelec!
If we assume that say only 50% of that are true Bosch e-bike problems, that is still a huge number......even 25% is still huge!
Does anyone know any other Manufacturer's name of e-bike problems, anywhere close to that? I did not till I investigate the German e-bike scene...
So I tend to feel that the returning British soldiers from Germany, after the end of WW2 had something.
For anyone who can read German, or who is willing to use and interpreter software/web site, the problems for Bosch e-bike owners are apparently pretty huge and well documented in Germany:-
Or here:-
or here:-Rückrufe von Fahrrädern und E-Bikes: Bei diesen Zweirädern radelt das Risiko mit
Nicht selten rufen Fahrradanbieter Modelle oder Einzelteile wegen Sicherheitsrisiken zurück – die Stiftung Warentest berichtet darüber und fasst die...
or here:-Studie belegt: Dieser Akku macht E-Bikern am meisten Probleme
E-Bike-Reparatur-Studie 2020 - wo liegen die technischen Probleme? Übersicht über die größten Schwachstellen bei E-Bikes. ➔ Hier informieren.
Where an interesting Graphic can be seen that requires little knowledge of German:-Auswertung Umfrage: War Ihr Motor schon defekt?
Antriebsschäden am E-MTB sind ärgerlich – aber leider keine Seltenheit. Daher startete EMTB die Umfrage "Motorschäden am E-MTB", über 1900 E-MTB Fans nahmen teil. Jetzt sind die Antworten ausgewertet.
View attachment 40048
43% Only have had NO PROBLEMS with their e-bike. A total of 904 e-Bikes, of mixed manufacturers.
22% of Bosch e-bike owners have had problems with their e-bikes a total of 454 bikes.
Brose had 21% of problems with 449 e-bikes.
Shimano had 5% with 111 bikes.
All the other manufacturers (therefore by definition the cheapos including of course hub bikes) accounted for only 9% of the problems, with 184 e-bikes! - very telling indeed as this will be the lower end of the market price wise.
I hope that this will interest anyone considering a Bosch bike at this time,
Happy New Year.
Andy
having read all through this thread I’d forgotten what the original topic was and I’m sure the OP got more than he’d bargained for.
I came to the conclusion that talking a lot doesn’t make you right
as to opinions,
I’ll not give mine, as my father used to say “opinions are like sphincters, every A sole has one and best not aired in public ”
I came to the conclusion that talking a lot doesn’t make you right
as to opinions,
I’ll not give mine, as my father used to say “opinions are like sphincters, every A sole has one and best not aired in public ”
It does matter how many responded for each make, as without that information the chart indicates almost nothing at all. As you say Anything else is cloud cuckoo land.....and then you cannot compare accurately between makes.... As I said, it is a pity they didn't give enough information to make their data directly meaningful (for example by giving a breakdown of the make of bikes without failures, or equivalently the total number of each make). Without full information we must either ignore their data as totally meaningless, or interpret it as best we can in the light of other data (such as total German ebike ownership).
I certainly agree that my interpretation makes multiple possibly incorrect assumptions (50% German Bosch ebikes, and their sample representative of that 50%) and may well be well off the mark. However it almost certainly more correct that an interpretation that says that the poll having more problem Bosch bikes implies Bosch bikes are less reliable.
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